E-Bikes are replacing cars, not bicycles, a study from Germany shows : fahrrad

[-] brot@feddit.org 27 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

My humble opinion: It really is ok even if eBikes are replacing normal bikes. They are not using up that many resources. The battery is kind of small, so the environment impact is not that much. They might be heavier, but we are still talking about a few kilos of steel max. You might get a little less exercise, but you still get some exercise. And an eBike does use almost no electricity, so we can ignore that, too. So who cares?

(And there is also a lot of discrimination going on here: eBikes are great for people who are not as fit as you are. eBikes are great for older people. eBikes are also great for people who want to commute by bike, but who don't want to do half an hour of exercise before and after work. That might be great if you are sitting on a desk the whole day, but it will break you if you work physically. You also can't see how healthy people are - some heart problems will totally wreck your ability to crank out the watts)

[-] Missy@feddit.org 10 points 2 days ago

Some study even calculated that a muscle powered bicycle with a person that's mostly eats meat and diary causes more greenhouse emissions than an ebike powered by renewables. So yeah its nothing big

[-] brot@feddit.org 6 points 2 days ago

That totally does make sense: If I load my eBike from my solar system, the CO2 impact is zero. If I ride the same distance with my normal bike, I will eat more because I burned some calories and even if I eat them as plants, that will produce more CO2 than zero.

[-] Marn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Not surprised at all. One huge advantage ebikes have over acoustic bikes is not showing up to whareever you are going sweaty and tired, especially if you live in a warm climate or hilly area.

I also won't be surprised if the automobile lobbies start seeing them as a threat in US/Canada

Edit: If you enjoy electronic projects I can highly recommend building your own ebike with grin technologies stuff they are a small Canadian company and are the main reason diy repairable ebikes are still a thing.

[-] FoolHen@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago

I love the term acoustic bikes hahahah I'm stealing that

[-] SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 days ago

You love to see it

[-] Gladaed@feddit.org 1 points 2 days ago

This is a terrible study. They did not compare to the number of trips a bicycle replaces as a baseline.

[-] DrunkEngineer@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

I would not read too much into this study as it is based on 2017 data.

[-] D_a_X@feddit.org 4 points 2 days ago

I believe that this effect has even intensified during the coronavirus pandemic.

[-] ws01@piratenpartei.social 2 points 2 days ago

@D_a_X I don't believe a single word. People are lying through their teeth to justify their behavior. E-bikes have replaced real bikes in bike stores. People are switching from bicycles to e-bikes. The marketing narrative is no longer aimed at old and disabled people, but middle-aged people and even children. I seriously doubt that children have switched from driving cars. The e-bike is the gateway drug to motorized transport from an early age.

[-] Gerprimus@feddit.org 8 points 2 days ago

Okay, Wolfgang. Thank you for your opinion.

[-] ws01@piratenpartei.social 1 points 2 days ago

@Gerprimus Most studies used in that meta study are based on opinions people have about their own behaviour. These aren't reliable statistics.

[-] whosepoopisonmybutt@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 days ago

When I ride my ebike to the grocery store or to work its pretty much always replacing a trip I would have taken in a car. I'd say it replaces about 20% of my trips. There is close to zero chance I would have used a non-ebike to have done the same.

[-] ws01@piratenpartei.social 1 points 2 days ago

@whosepoopisonmybutt

There is close to zero chance I would have used a non-ebike to have done the same.

For what reason? Ebikes essentially are motorcycles. So why don't you just use a real motorcycle? E-bikes combine the disadvantages of bicycles, namely comparatively low speed, with the disadvantages of motor vehicles, namely loss of fitness.

[-] Asinus@feddit.org 7 points 2 days ago

I don't think it helps anybody to antagonize people who want to use ebikes.

They still have some exercise, albeit obviously reduced compared to a "real" bike. They don't pollute their environment with exhaust gases and noise. They don't use as much public space as they would with a car or even a motorbike

Anecdotally a collegue of mine got a ebike last year an has since ridden 2k km and even driven it 15km to work some times. She has not used her normal bike that much in the last 10 years combined.

[-] ws01@piratenpartei.social 1 points 1 day ago

@Asinus I don't think it helps anyone to encourage people to switch from real bicycles to e-bikes, which are no longer bicycles at all.

[-] brot@feddit.org 6 points 2 days ago

No, they are not motorcycles. They are bicycles with an electric support. Motorcycles are a lot faster and therefore more dangerous. If you crash at 25km/h that results in different injuries than a crash with 125km/h. Therefore, motorcycles need a (extremely expensive) license, regular checks, expensive maintenance and cost more.

[-] ws01@piratenpartei.social 1 points 1 day ago

@brot

No, they are not motorcycles. They are bicycles with an electric support.

They are motorcycles with minimal pedal assistance from the rider, which serves as a fig leaf.

How much power do you think a bicycle rider needs for riding at a speed of 25 km/h? How much power would he or she need for riding with a speed of 125 km/?

[-] whosepoopisonmybutt@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I do have a motorcycle as well, since you asked.

Why an ebike?

Some sources claim it is actually the most environmentally friendly method of transportation, even when taking manufacturing into account. Over its lifetime, it creates less pollution than bike riding or walking, if you assume the person isn't a vegetarian.

Cost per day to commute 8 miles each way on the ebike is roughly $0.50 and roughly $5.00 for my 25 year old Toyota Tacoma, considering all costs.

I also enjoy riding my ebike and it has some health benefits. I don't just sit on it like a lazy bum who is riding a slow motorcycle. I pedal with moderate effort and can get to and from work feeling like I got some exercise without arriving all sweaty and gross. Riding this distance on an unpowered bike before and after work would fucking suck.

Is the lower speed a disadvantage? Yes but only slightly. I could get to work in about 15 minutes driving vs consistently about 22 minutes on the bike. Although the top speed is only about 28 mph, im nearly always going top speed. There are a few places where I have to stop for lights but at these intersections, I generally catch up with the cars that passed me earlier. Unless you're getting on the freeway, the bike is only barely slower.

[-] ws01@piratenpartei.social 1 points 1 day ago

@whosepoopisonmybutt

Why an ebike?

Some sources claim it is actually the most environmentally friendly method of transportation, even when taking manufacturing into account.

I think we can stop right here. I don't doubt that using a low-powered electric motorcycle may be a more environmentally friendly method of transportation than using a high-powered ICE motorcycle, if it is suitable for the purpose. But that doesn't make it a muscle-powered bicycle, and it doesn't make it equivalent to and as environmentally friendly as a muscle-powered bicycle.

Riding this distance on an unpowered bike before and after work would fucking suck.

O RLY? I commuted 8 miles each way for decades. It was pretty tough at first. But the great thing about muscle-powered bikes is that the engine gets stronger over time with heavy use.

[-] Takios@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 days ago

a motorcycle is more expensive, is more difficult to store, needs an extra license, comes with more fees, needs to be officially registered and insured.

[-] ws01@piratenpartei.social 1 points 1 day ago

@Takios Now we're getting closer to the heart of the matter. The only relevant difference between motorcycles and e-bikes is the exemption from regulations that previously applied to all motor vehicles, and rightfully so.

[-] whosepoopisonmybutt@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

It will probably take some time for regulations to catch up but many places already have rules for ebikes. For example, in California, class 1 and 2 are only allowed to go 20 mph (32 km/h). Class 3 can only go 28 mph (45 km/h) and only via pedal assist, rider must wear helmet and be at least 16 years old, aren't allowed on bike paths.

What are the reasons for your distaste?

Hardly anybody wants to ride an analog bike. Yes, it's because we're lazy. People would much rather ride around in their comfortable cars, with their stereo, radio, heater/ac. However, ebikes make bicycling an efficient, viable option that doesn't suck.

Even if ebikes replace some non-ebikes, ebikes are more efficient. There is a slightly greater environmental impact from producing the food to supply the calories to pedal the analog bike than there is from producing the electrical power to charge the ebike.

I you compare the impact of an ebike to an ice or an electric car, it isn't even close. The ebike is far superior.

[-] Derpenheim@lemmy.zip 9 points 2 days ago

So go do a study of your own.

[-] ws01@piratenpartei.social 1 points 2 days ago

@Derpenheim

So go do a study of your own.

I just keep my eyes open while riding my bicycle, walking around or driving, instead of asking people what they do. Self-deception is very common when it comes to cycling.

[-] Takios@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 days ago

"I just keep my eyes open" is the same argument that car drivers use to say that all cyclists are just the worst and don't adhere to any traffic rules while completely ignoring car driver's infractions, especially those that have been normalized (like speeding)

[-] ws01@piratenpartei.social 1 points 1 day ago

@Takios I question the motorization of bicycles with engines that dwarf the performance and endurance of highly trained athletes, and in your view, that is equivalent to high-powered car drivers who get upset about real or imagined traffic violations by non-motorized cyclists?

Bizarre.

Fahrrad