I fucking love that he chose to call them stalinists. In addition to it being true, it send a fuck you to the alt-right and the alt-left (who love to talk up stalin as of late)
Who in the alt left is talking about Stalin lol maybe some whackos online
Mostly the tankies on .ml
Who, you know, MIGHT be real people but probably aren’t for the most part..
I just assume any .ml account is a propaganda bot. Because even if they are real people.. they are propaganda bots.
Lemmy is far too small to bot.
lemmy.ml is just friendly to those people, so it attracts them.
lemmy.ml was built by those people, sometimes it feels for the express purpose of spreading their bullshit.
maybe some whackos online
Checks out.
From someone who has gone to more than a few political protests and rallies in Boston:
Every fucking time Socialist Alternative shows up, it’s fine until some edgelord dipshit unfurls the fucking huge Soviet flag with Stalin and Mao silk screened on it. It’s like they’re trying to alienate reasonable people as well as historically-informed people. I consider myself a staunch socialist. I also outright detest Stalin and Mao because they were fucking authoritarian despots who wrapped their regimes in “communism” banners.
Sure, some of the systems at lower levels were socialistic, but at the end of the day, it was all in service to the cult of personality in charge of the whole gig. And yes, that’s what the US has devolved into (and arguably had done so quite a while ago, just not so overtly), but that doesn’t excuse Stalin or Mao, nor does it justify being an apologist for them.
Stalin took the Russian state from an agricultural backwater to a Space Age superpower in a matter of twenty years.
If he'd started out a Virginia plantation owner instead of a Georgian bank robber, capitalists would have loved him. He'd be bigger than Churchill.
American liberals love (the whitewashed version of) FDR because they see the quasi-socialism of the mid-20th century as the morally correct path. Eastern Europeans - who came through two world wars and repeated genocides on every front - have a lot more of an appetite for Iron Fisted Dictator[Communist] after enduring generations of Iron Fisted Dictator[Monarchist]
stalin also evetuanlly purged his own loyalists after becoming paranoid.
I mean a less harsh version of that has been going on. Trump has ejected many people that used to be in his inner circle, and has, or has tried, to fire almost the whole federal government, too many people who got there without him to trust
Oh don't worry, he's still trying to get feds to quit, and they're drooling at adding sycophantic bullshit to the hiring process. All while eroding union protections, benefits, and pay.
All while the Democrats vote down attempts to combat Trump, but have all the time in the world to sabotage the primary resultant nominee in NYC. Why have a primary if you're not going to go with the results? That's not a primary - that's just bullshit.
This country is a fucking joke.
here's hoping
Not exactly. While I understand the satisfaction of seeing these asshats getting their faces eaten by the leopard, the ones being purged are the ones that are most likely to keep him somewhat in check, leaving only scared little yes men behind.
Too many people here just blindly hating on Bernie and nitpicking how "Stalinism is technically incorrect". Where's the Trump hate? Bring some of that shit out. I'll start.
Fuck Trump, MAGA, and their entire cult of personality.
Because turbo libbing is not the solution to defeating Trump. It is similar to saying Israel has the right to defend itself before each statement. Bernie is actively antagonizing commies by repeating US imperialist propaganda and applying it to someone he does not like.
If you feel antagonised when someone criticise Stalin then that's a you problem though.
Staline's Image Cult isn't "imperialist propaganda"
Americans using their global opponents which they demonize in all their media as insults is an all too classic trope.
I am sure we are all extremely well informed on Stalin because of our unbiased media.
Stalinism isn't actual leftist politics. It's sycophantic moronery, just as Bernie used it.
So when Stalin collaborated with Nazis to kill and chase away my relatives from what is now Ukraine that was imperialist propaganda? Why did so many of my ancestors flee Russia at that time?
You mean the peace treaty he signed with Hitler to stall for time and build weapons after France and Britain refused to join forces with him to fight Hitler.
Have you considered asking yourself why France and Britain refused?
It is quite astounding to blame Stalin, the guy who basically fought Hitler all by himself, for the Holocaust.
Quite frankly, I think that the voters who would be put off by Bernie stating that MAGA and support for Stalin share similarities are both worthless and minuscule.
protip: most of the bernie haters are forum sliders. Mods are even less likely here to do anything about it than on reddit.
Lemmy should be a place Bernie's policies are celebrated, but due to shills, bots, bad actors and just trolls, every post about him will be brigaded and turned into a shitshow
Lemmy is complicit in our march towards fascism and their lack of action is telling of their motivations
The Democrats should OFFICIALLY declare the Republican Party dead, and only refer to the MAGA Party from now on. Do an actual press conference, and make an official announcement - the Republican Party no longer exists, and has been replaced by the MAGA Party. That will make the traditional Republicans absolutely crazy, and the Dems should keep it up.
Never use the word Republican ever again, refer only to the MAGA, or MAGA Nazi Party. On talk shows, interviews, sound bites, fundraising texts, etc., use the term MAGA Party exclusively. When asked about it, simply say casually and matter-of-factly "The Republican Party is dead, they are the MAGA Party from now on," and leave it at that. Make the MAGAs cry.
How exactly are these kindergarten word games going to stop fascism? I'm asking seriously.
use the term MAGA Party exclusively
MAGA - Morons And Genuine Assholes.
The GOP has become a Stalinist Party
They haven't killed remotely enough fascists to earn this distinction.
I cannot imagine being enough of a sycophant to wear a hat that says "Trump was right about everything". Nobody's right about everything, and Trump is less right about things than most people because he's incredibly stupid.
So much of the last 30 years of Republicanism (maybe 60 years, if you're a Nixonian) boils down to Owning The Libs.
The guy with the "Trump was right..." hat will happily bitch about all the things Trump is doing wrong. He just won't do it in earshot of anyone he thinks is to his Left.
Trump is less right about things than most people
Trump is turning the rhetoric of the Reagan Era into reality. He's taking the orthodoxy of the party seriously, rather than using it as bait to gull the rubes into another round of tax cuts and privatizations.
It's this commitment to orthodoxy that his base loves. Also what makes him look stupid.
Hah use their communist rhetoric back at them
Oh, libs. When will you learn that the right is immune to these sorts of accusations? Nobody is swayed by this "Trump is a communist" rhetoric, the only people who agree with it are people who already hate Trump and would clap along with any comparison or accusation as long as it's negative. Trump has "Only Nixon could go to China" powers.
It's the same sort of thing as the Dems trying to attack Trump as weak on immigration and pass themselves off as border hawks. Liberals can't help but to concede this whole moral framework to the right and argue purely along technical lines of efficiency.
Of course the liberals clap along because it owns the "tankies," and in their minds, if they just punch left enough they'll convince everyone that they're "one of the good ones" on the left, as if they're not going to be labelled Stalinists anyway, like they did with Obama.
It's bad enough that it's not true, but even worse is that nobody buys it (who wasn't already "vote blue no matter who").
he said “stalinist”; not communist… one of the primary things that differentiates stalin from marx and lenin (afaik; i’ll freely admit i’m not reading books on the subject, but that’s also the perspective of the mainstream and thus afaik the communication he’s going for) is the authoritarianism, purges, etc: he’s trying to say that trump is a cult of personality of equal substance to the mainstream understanding of stalin
i’ll freely admit i’m not reading books on the subject
Let me first clarify a few points then.
Marx and Lenin were also "authoritarian." You should read Engles' On Authority, it's not long and explains his position on the matter, which was consistent with Marx.
"Stalinism" isn't really a thing, nobody calls themselves that, it's just a pejorative for Marxism-Leninism, which was Stalin's stated ideology (in fact, he's the person who coined the term). Marxism-Leninism ("Stalinism") is the most prevalent ideology among self-described communists globally, particularly in the global south.
If Sanders just wanted an authoritarian figure to compare Trump to, there are no shortage of right-wing ones who have much more in common with him. The choice of Stalin seems to be intentional, to distance himself and his own brand of socialism from Stalin and other M-Ls.
I believe this is a flawed strategy, in the same way it would be to accuse a witch-hunter of being a witch. The problem is that you're accepting the premise that witches are real and need to be hunted, and at that point it becomes a question of who can better make the case that they're not a witch - which is going to be the witch-hunter, because that's their job, they know how to play the game, they made the rules. In the same way, right wingers are always going to be more convincing anti-communists than someone who calls himself a socialist, they made the rules of the red scare and they know how to play it. The real way to defeat the witch hunt is to have enough people who aren't afraid of being called witches, and the way to defeat red scare stuff is not to accept the framing and punch left, but to say, "So what if I am a Red?"
This rhetoric adds nothing of subtance to the political understanding of either contemporary Trumpism or the history of Stalinism. Sanders only serves to obscure the meaning of this critically important understanding. Fascism and Stalinism are not the same.
To be clear, Stalinism took hold in the Soviet Union as a result of its historic backwardness and international isolation. The failure of the revolution to take root in Europe (largely a result of the historic betrayal of Social Democracy in the Second International) created conditions for the consolidation of a nationalist clique and a bureaucratic degeneration of the workers state that formed from the victory of the October Revolution. That is Stalinism. This political form was responsible for mass murder of the old cadres of the revolution who opposed it, systematic betrayal of the workers movement internationally, collaboration with imperialism allowing for the restabilization of capitalism during its repeated periods of crisis, and ultimately the destruction of Soviet Union union and the restoration of capitalism in 1991. A detailed and correct historical understanding of this history is critically important for the working class as it enters into a new period of revolutionary struggle.
Sanders use of the term as a political slur wrongly directed at Trump confuses the issue, and ultimately gives capitalism a pass for its own crisis. Trump is not simply an evil individual responsible for wrecking America. He is the product of the terminal crisis of capitalism at the center of world imperialism. He represents a financial oligarchy whose wealth and influence has grown increasingly disconnected from social development and the process of production. The historic content of Trumpism has a stronger relationship to the fascism of Mussolini and Hitler than the national labor bureaucraticism of Stalin.
This is no small error by Sanders. This is a deliberate falsification that is calculated to confuse political consciousness and hinder the development of revolutionary conclusions. It should be clear to anyone who takes more than a second to think about it that the comparison to Stalinism is shallow. The historic content of Trumpism is its own.
One is fascism, the other is red fascism. Different ideologies but same cheeks from the same arse as one might put it.
Fascism and Stalinism are not the same.
People who unironically support Stalinism in the modern day are red fascists. Whether they are technically the exact same thing or not isn't a meaningful discussion considering the commentary that Sanders is offering here. He is specifically operating within the context of modern American politics. Something average academic/armchair/larpy leftists are often completely fucking incapable of. His main use of analogizing Stalinism with Trumpism is the Cult of Personality not that they are literally the exact same thing. It is exhausting that this needs to be explained.
Sanders use of the term as a political slur wrongly directed at Trump confuses the issue, and ultimately gives capitalism a pass for its own crisis.
How does it give a pass to capitalism? Sanders himself would agree that capitalism contributed to Trumpism.
This is a deliberate falsification that is calculated to confuse political consciousness and hinder the development of revolutionary conclusions.
This is a level of paranoia suggesting actual brain damage, seek medical attention.
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People skeeting stuff.
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