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[-] wellbuddyweek@lemm.ee 86 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Actually, those are not the same. Natural numbers include zero, positive integers do not. She shoud definately use 'big naturals'.

Edit: although you could argue that it doesnt matter as 0 is arguably neither big nor large

[-] yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 68 points 1 week ago

Natural numbers only include zero if you define it so in the beginning of your book/paper/whatever. Otherwise it's ambiguous and you should be ashamed of yourself.

[-] wellbuddyweek@lemm.ee 8 points 1 week ago

Fair enough, as a computer scientist I got tought to use the Neumann definition, which includes zero, unless stated differently by the author. But for general mathematics, I guess it's used both ways.

[-] Zwiebel@feddit.org 50 points 1 week ago

Natural numbers include zero

That is a divisive opinion and not actually a fact

[-] kogasa@programming.dev 5 points 1 week ago

Yeah, it's a matter of convention rather than opinion really, but among US academia the convention is to exclude 0 from the naturals. I think in France they include it.

[-] SchwertImStein@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 week ago

positive interers with addition are not a monoid though, since the identity element of addition is 0

[-] kogasa@programming.dev 3 points 1 week ago
[-] SchwertImStein@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 week ago

I hope that explains everything

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[-] errer@lemmy.world 30 points 1 week ago

Big naturals in fact include two zeroes:

(o ) ( o)

Spaces and parens added for clarity

[-] Jerkface@lemmy.world 20 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

(0 ) ( 0)
You can't fool me.

[-] Quadhammer@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

(o Y o) solve for Y

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[-] peregrin5@lemm.ee 13 points 1 week ago

Depends on how you draw it.

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Natural numbers include zero

Only if you're French or a computer scientist or something! No one else counts from zero.

There's nothing natural about zero. The famously organized and inventive Roman Empire did fine without it and it wasn't a popular concept in Europe until the early thirteenth century.

If zero were natural like 1, 2, 3, 4, then all cultures would have counted from zero, but they absolutely did not.

[-] SchwertImStein@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago

american education system moment?

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

I think round the world, children and adults start counting from 1. It's only natural!

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[-] Atlusb@lemmy.world 46 points 1 week ago

Also in an aqueous environment, they become floating point values.

[-] miss_demeanour@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 1 week ago

Big Naturals Are More Pronounced

ftfy

[-] hungryphrog 22 points 1 week ago

Gandalf's large positive integers

Like that?

[-] weird@sub.wetshaving.social 13 points 1 week ago

Oh wow. Do we have a lemmy community for that?

[-] gay_sex@mander.xyz 10 points 1 week ago

be the change you want to see!

[-] usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca 18 points 1 week ago

I don't care if they're big, as long as they're real

[-] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 week ago

I don't care if they're real, as long as I can manipulate them

[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 7 points 1 week ago

They're Real, and they're fantastic.

[-] Madison420@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago

You like big figures and you cannot lie?

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

Imaginary ones are useful too.

[-] AngularViscosity@piefed.social 18 points 1 week ago

Don't get me started on the unnatural and supernatural numbers.

[-] Lifter@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 1 week ago

Sound made up, like imaginary numbers.

[-] Jankatarch@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I mean all numbers are made up when you think about it.

Also unrelated but natural numbers are closed under multiplication (by pure coincidence) while imaginary numbers are not.

This means natural numbers make worse examples when learning about sets.

[-] deltapi@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Made me think of how everything is base 10, even octal or binary.

[-] Bosht@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago

This actually got a chuckle out of me. Prob the first number related joke I've laughed at.

[-] zjti8eit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 week ago

I like naturals, but more than a mouthful is kind of a waste. ;-)

[-] Jerb322@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

https://youtu.be/B8dldLG_ZhI

"Anything bigger than a handful, you're risking a sprained tung"

[-] Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 1 week ago

That's true OP, "big naturals" are indeed very pronounced.

[-] regdog@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

I googled "Big Naturals". Result number 16 was this:

[-] xeekei@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 week ago

Should've been number 1.

[-] ATS1312@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago

Natural Numbers ≠ Integers though.

In spite of that, I'm chuckling. Math can be funny sometimes 😂

[-] MBM@lemmings.world 17 points 1 week ago

Positive integers are (a subset of) natural numbers

[-] ewenak@jlai.lu 5 points 1 week ago

Why a subset? They're the same thing right? I guess it could be about the zero?

[-] SchwertImStein@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago

you answered your own question

[-] ewenak@jlai.lu 3 points 1 week ago

Well what I learned in school was that zero was both positive and negative. I knew some people consider the natural numbers don't include zero, but I didn't know for some zero isn't even positive.

[-] SchwertImStein@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

it is neither positive nor negative

[-] deltapi@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I knew a physicist who considered 0 negative if she arrived at 0 coming from negative source numbers and positive if coming from positive sources.

Something something sampling rate

[-] MBM@lemmings.world 2 points 1 week ago

Some places (like France) talk about positive and strictly positive, others (like England) about non-negative and positive

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[-] OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

I just say “big’uns”

[-] Ledericas@lemm.ee 5 points 1 week ago

we like to see those Double negative intergers.

[-] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 4 points 1 week ago
[-] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 week ago

Be glad it isn't Positive Integers Venti

[-] kamen@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

Why, would anyone at all think about something else?

/s

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this post was submitted on 04 Jun 2025
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