Computer science has one of the highest unemployment rates : hackernews

[-] MBech@feddit.dk 89 points 6 days ago

Funny how everyone and their mom was screaming to study computer science 3-5 years ago. Bragging about earning 6 figure wages. This is what that kind og hype gets you. A saturated job market with high unemployment rate. Next the wages will plummet because people will be so desperate for a job, they'll gladly work for half of what they're worth.

[-] evilcultist@sh.itjust.works 84 points 6 days ago

Companies have been pushing that for many years because they wanted wages down.

This is all payback for the power the workers gained during the pandemic.

[-] neukenindekeuken@sh.itjust.works 19 points 6 days ago

Ding ding ding ding!

This is the correct answer

[-] courval@lemmy.world 12 points 5 days ago

Have you used software/online services lately? It seems that half the stuff out there is broken in some way.. I don't think the problem is a saturated market at all but a lack of understanding of the profession by business leaders. I actually believe there's a software crisis happening and the tech debt is only going to get worse with over/misuse of AI. At this point, considering the chaos this might create, I don't even know if I want to be right.. There have been plenty of examples of this mismanagement causing havoc in the news the last few years and we're still moving in the wrong direction imo..

[-] wildncrazyguy138@fedia.io 14 points 6 days ago

I’m not so sure. Coding is a skill, just like any other. A project or construction manager who knows VBA can automate 1/5 of their job. A mechanical engineer who knows code can modify a CNC. A sales rep with coding skills is an unstoppable force for leads, outreach and reports.

Yes, coding was long a job and it long still will be for the best in the business, the well connected, or those who focused on archaic languages. For the rest of us, it becomes a skill like trigonometry or knowing a foreign language.

[-] uuldika@lemmy.ml 8 points 6 days ago

most software engineering isn't actual computer science, it's plumbing. and most coding isn't software engineering, it's scripting. we overproduced CS majors when we should have taught scripting as part of the curriculum for ME, finance etc.

and even the plumbing should be separated into a different major. it's like hiring electrical engineers as electricians.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Naa, this isn't from to many people, this is from companies trying to hire people who know what the fuck they're doing. The number of people I run into on a daily basis that have zero understanding of the basics is way to high, and these people are usually devs. It's like someone wanting to build a house but all they know how to do is roofing. Colleges pop out these CS majors and they think their degree is going to land them a job, while having zero actual skills outside of what they did in college. You can't expect me to hire you for six figures if you can't even install windows or linux. Go take a help desk job to learn the basics first.

[-] pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip 51 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

6% is Incredibly high unemployment, and a result of a persistent multi year coordinated class warfare effort against us programmers. We all use the AI they claim is taking the load off. We all know the truth. All of us who aren't so new at this to be wowed by the shiny, are quite aware of the parts of our job it cannot do.

The owner class is coming at us because we programmers tend to be organized and well connected, and we have serious leverage.

Remember that 94% employment still represents a lot of shared power. Let's look out for each-other. And remember that there's not going to be enough of us to clean up the messes they are making by under-hiring. Be choosy who you help with clean-up, and who you justly leave to rot in their choices. Don't stay too long working for shitty employers. Find the next gig, when it comes. Get the money they're trying to claw back from the next place, and from the previous place on a short lucrative contract. If all they understand is money, give them a chance to express how much like they staying online and in business, with it.

[-] riskable@programming.dev 57 points 6 days ago

NOTE: Computer Scientists are the folks that do lots of math to figure out the best algorithm to use to solve any given computational problem. It's a very specific subset of programming.

For a long, long time companies sought to hire people with computer science degrees as software developers under the impression that these were the best people for developing software. This was a very bad assumption.

Turns out, computer scientists are often terrible at software development! They don't usually teach things like how to best organize large projects or even basics like source code management or software deployment/management in CompSci programs. Yet those are the actual skills employers need these days.

Want to get a job in software development? You don't need a degree at all! What you need is to demonstrate your skills with whatever tools/software employers are demanding. The simplest way to do that is with posting some open source code to GitHub (or similar).

When hiring—if the person I'm interviewing has a public repo that uses the tech we're using—they're basically hired immediately. At that point the only thing I care about is, "does this person seem OK-ish to work with?" LOL! Easiest hire ever 👍

[-] Nalivai@lemmy.world 13 points 5 days ago

You're in minority. Usually when people hire programmers they want us to jump through unnecessary hoops and solve stupid fucking leetcode bullshit, and rarely care about anything else. Oh how I hate the leetcode bullshit.

[-] SpatchyIsOnline@lemmy.world 17 points 6 days ago

Want to get a job in software development? You don't need a degree at all! What you need is to demonstrate your skills with whatever tools/software employers are demanding. The simplest way to do that is with posting some open source code to GitHub (or similar).

From my experience you certainly need both

[-] Manifish_Destiny@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

In my experience technical knowledge can fill the gap, but it has to be demonstrable.

[-] FatCrab@lemmy.one 11 points 6 days ago

The problem is that CS curricula vary quite a bit from university to university. Having ABET accreditation helps (or at least used to) a good bit with this as it required a program to include certain brass tacks material as well as (workforce) project participation items. However, many of those accredited programs effectively emerged out of EE departments so there's a very weird skewing effect in the field.

[-] ikka@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 6 days ago

So... you hiring?

[-] Flames5123@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 days ago

A lot of schools didn’t offer Software Engineering degrees until the past 10 years though, so people got CS degrees. In college, if I planned on doubling up on as many credits as possible for highest overlap (electives for one and required for the other), there was only a 12 hour difference in courses, which is just one more semester. I don’t think you could double major in them though because of how similar the fields were.

I started in CS for 2 years before swapping to SE, and it’s true that CS was a lot more theory, but we still had to do most of the time same hands on programming.

[-] missingno@fedia.io 42 points 6 days ago

Every "entry level" job opening asks for five years of experience with some technology that has only existed for two years.

I got my CS degree eight years ago, and it's been gathering dust as I've been working an unrelated part-time job instead. At this rate I feel like it might be too late for me, having no real work experience at my age is something recruiters probably see as a red flag...

[-] BassTurd@lemmy.world 9 points 6 days ago

I have a 2 year degree in sys admin from 10 years ago. For most of that 10 years I worked as a sys admin in a smaller company where I wore many hats. I had a year of coding at uni prior to my 2 year degree, so I knew how to code. Over that 10 years, I wrote scripts and small apps to automate some of my day to day work or at least built tools to help do things.

Last year, I switched jobs and I'm kind of working part time with the dev team with a roadmap to get there full time. I'm in my mid 30s.

Basically, I just want to point out anecdotally that it's not too late to get to do the work you want, it just may be slower and in steps to get there if you can find a company to work with you. Alternatively, you could maybe get in at a start up looking for junior devs. The red type might be easier to get through there.

[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 5 points 6 days ago

Idk, I got my entry level job with 5 years of experience. That's what internships are for when you're studying in Uni..

And I wouldn't want to hire someone who hasn't that experience. It shows a lack of drive.

[-] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago

Your classism is showing.

[-] Not_mikey@slrpnk.net 9 points 6 days ago

It shows a lack of ~~drive~~ access to resources that allow you to do an unpaid internship.

[-] Omgpwnies@lemmy.world 2 points 5 days ago

Internships for software are almost always paid, and compared to other disciplines, paid reasonably well. $30+/hr in Canada is fairly normal for dev/qa internships, and I've heard from several students that I've interviewed that they've made more in US companies. Some companies also offer raises for students that return for successive terms.

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] Ledericas@lemm.ee 4 points 5 days ago

you're acting as if internships are easy to get into. dont know about cs/programming ones. but other stems like bio/biotech are notirously difficult and competitive to get one, if you can even find it. so most people try to get into limited lab spaces at a uni instead, and all the internships ive seen require a very high gpa plus geared only for specific scientists.

[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

They are. Almost all tech companies have cs internships. There's almost nothing to loose and a lot to gain.

But, again, there's loads of FOSS projects on github with tickets tickets that you can just start contributing to. That's also experience and highly valued.

[-] Ledericas@lemm.ee 2 points 5 days ago

kinda same for bio-tech, bio related jobs. must have x, usally 2-4 years of skills. plus programs you never heard of. found out later these tend to be ghost jobs, or people they hire internally or VISA wise, and dint want to look discriminatory.

[-] TheBat@lemmy.world 17 points 6 days ago

LeArN tO cOdE!!11!

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago

Ah yes, this single article negates the entire field.

[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world 12 points 6 days ago

99.9% of jobs requore at least 3 to 5 years of experience

[-] Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz 13 points 6 days ago

I'm curious how this compares to non-STEM majors.

[-] lundi@piefed.social 20 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

It says in the article

The major saw an unemployment rate of 6.1 percent, just under those top majors like physics and anthropology, which had rates of 7.8 and 9.4 percent respectively.

Computer engineering, which at many schools is the same as computer science, had a 7.5 percent unemployment rate, calling into question the job market many computer science graduates are entering.

On the other hand, majors like nutrition sciences, construction services and civil engineering had some of the lowest unemployment rates, hovering between 1 percent to as low as 0.4 percent.

This data was based on The New York Fed's report, which looked at Census data from 2023 and unemployment rates of recent college graduates.

[-] Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz 4 points 6 days ago

Other than anthropology, I think the rest of those are all STEM majors as well.

[-] lundi@piefed.social 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Here a table info with others non-STEM degrees unemployement rate: Labor Market Outcomes of College Graduates by Major ^.xlsx

It's from the same source as the OP's article (The New York Fed), you'll see it says last updated in 2025 but if you scroll down you'll see them mentioning it to be 2023 data which is what the article was based on too

[-] Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz 3 points 6 days ago

Thanks, that was what I was looking for, but I missed the source data. That table also adds in an underemployment rate, which is a good reference too I think. Many of the degrees with the worst unemployment rates also have very high underemployment rates, meaning that many of the people in those degrees who do have jobs are only finding part time work or are stuck with jobs that don't meet their qualifications.

While computer science/engineering does have a high unemployment rate, it's underemployment rate is far better than the surrounding degrees. Taking that into consideration does make it seem like a better career than just the unemployment rate would suggest.

[-] Ledericas@lemm.ee 1 points 5 days ago

bio is middle of it, probably because most of them are in health, instead of research and biotech.3%, i wonder if they seperate the 2 biotech might be a higher unemployment, because i noticed that people often cant find a job most of the time, because of the significant amount of experience required+ grad degree if applicable.

[-] jaybone@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 days ago

Is anthropology not considered a science?

[-] Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz 2 points 6 days ago

It depends on the focus I think, some anthropology careers do fall under STEM. But generally it's not a STEM degree afaik.

[-] jaybone@lemmy.zip 3 points 6 days ago

I mean, it’s a BS not a BA right? Or no? Same with psychology?

[-] Ledericas@lemm.ee 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

BA doesnt recovery heavy math, and stem courses, unlike a BS degree. i looked at a BA and bs for bio, bio required a ton more lab and science cours, and chem, ochem, biochem. but ba might not require all of those. for psych its almost always BA, unless your doing a PHD in the future. PSY-D might only need a BA.

[-] faythofdragons@slrpnk.net 2 points 6 days ago

TIL it can be either?

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] Ledericas@lemm.ee 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

depends if the students intends to go into grad school or research, probalby best to get a BS, if there is one. rather than go through the headache of getting required courses down the line tha tthe BA dint require. some people fall into the trap of doing a BA, because it finishes the degree faster. as a post-bacc, which people realize thier mistake will have to pay more for tuition, and wont have any priority for registration, which some universities might have professors only teaching a class you need one semester and not another.

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] Ledericas@lemm.ee 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

i have extended family that had cs, and couldnt find a job, they are probably in adjacent fields. i can say the same for bio related majors that is not going into health, which is more difficult : must have lab experience prior to graduation(catch 22, where else can you get it when not in school), you'd be lucky to even get it as a post-bacc if they dont already prioritized undergrads, and graduates first. and the biggest is research experience, which is even harder to get than lab(research as part of your degree doesnt count, unless you were published in well known journal, its pushing it though.) i know people with a MS in a bio-related degree with no job prospects, gave up after 4 months of searching in '18. agraduate degree is even less attractive to a job market.

while one of my closer fam had a wierd hybrid programming and only found a job after 1 year of searching last decade, and got laid off in '23, still unemployed to this day, he thinks he can live off what he earned over 9-10years on the job and severance pay.

i met someone in a gig job with a CS degree, was somewhat delusional, he thinks by going into a ms/ma degree for CS would mean he be able to advance in his career(obviously came to a in-between jobs because his cs dint work out), but many schools wont take someone who already has a degree, unless you're applying to a grad program. basically no 2nd BS degree, no degree shopping, or academic "incest"(which is getting a undergrad and a grad degree from the same school)

[-] pelya@lemmy.world 12 points 6 days ago

It would be better to introduce 'programming literacy' course. Like, learn whatever trade you like, but with a computer, because computers are everywhere now.

The computer by itself isn't that much useful, it needs to control something, like CNC welding machine, and if you can write the most basic Python to control your welding machine, you can do twice the work, because you can run your welding machine at night.

[-] altkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The Uni I graduated from introduced basic coding into every programm, from engineering to humanities to arts. Everyone used chatgpt to get through it without a second glance because they didn't even understood why they need that. Even management didn't, I guess, but they wanted to check a box of 'being modern and progressive'.

It should be explained and deeply inserted into each program with at least a couple of mixed half-IT disciplines, like Databases in Law Practice or Computer vision in QA or Automation in Accounting or MatPlotLib in Countative Studies or... As it was there, it's an isolated course that's the same for everyone, it's on you to create a project connected to your main interest. And, as I heard, no one really made it besides getting a minimal sum to pass.

Basically, it needs effort and understanding from both sides.

[-] pelya@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

Educational bureaucracy strikes again!
It's likely that you will learn the same exact thing when you're 35 and need to improve your trade skills, but as a self-study and not an university course with zero relation to real life.
The field of programming is vast, and you totally can learn only the tiny part that is useful to you and ignore everything else. And learning CS to write programs is like learning to design combustion engines to drive a car.

[-] jaybone@lemmy.zip 7 points 6 days ago

And learning CS to write programs is like learning to design combustion engines to drive a car.

Sometimes.

But often people will “write programs” without a decent understanding of the underlying layers and principles or foundation on which the technology is built. (Even some CS majors will do this.) this will result in weird bugs and behaviors they cannot understand or debug. Meanwhile their peers and managers have begun to use and rely on these programs and even integrate them into larger processes and workflows. Once the bugs start showing up, now you’ve got a big problem.

[-] altkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 days ago

There are also some basics you'd probably won't even register breaking without experience, going as far as pushing user credentials and personal data to an open git repository. I did that in my second pet project with just my temp keys to the cloud API, and github flagged that immediately. I guess, having at least the briefiest knowledge could've helped newbies avoid errors like that.

[-] altkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 6 days ago

I don't know if it's bullshit or not, but I discovered that not every person has the mentality of seeing everything through an algorythmic lense, like detecting a repetition in a mundane task - and guessing, if it can be solved with a macro. I invented a lot of simple solutions, like these, or just combos of programs to optimize the workflow in my office, and I see not only my colleagues struggle to use these, many work for years in the least optimal way, even if the program itself, e.g. Excel, provides automated math equations - some still use calculators and put in the result by hand. It got me thinking, maybe IT isn't for everyone, and other learning\working styles won't benefit from such education even if it's given - while acing in something else entirely?

[-] ICastFist@programming.dev 9 points 6 days ago

I recall reading a piece on The Register some weeks ago, about the "enshittification of tech jobs". It was a load of bullshit (mostly a whining piece on how workers for the megacorps were no longer being treated with red carpets) and the comments rightly stated that tech jobs were shit since the 1980s. Folks also chimed on how "have a compsci graduation and you'll get good job offers with good salaries" has been a lie for a long time, especially when you don't live near any tech hub

[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 3 points 6 days ago

For many computer science roles, you'll have tens of thousands of graduates chasing the job, which now demands years of experience, an impressive GitHub...

Yeah, that's the takeaway. If a kid graduates and doesn't even have a github profile, they're not gonna get hired.

Just contribute to some FOSS projects (or make your own) and you'll stand ahead of the rest.

[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 3 points 6 days ago

I think they're confusing unemployment with difficulty finding jobs.

It's true that a lot of software engineers get laid off and take unemployment while theyre between jobs

It's also true that its super easy to get a job if you're an experienced software engineer.

This says more about companies simultaneously laying off and hiring than it does about the availability of jobs in the market.

[-] a4ng3l@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

Yeah and how much is lost to off/near shoring?

Hacker News