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[-] Tin@lemmy.world 21 points 13 hours ago

I'm Buddhist, and it's always struck me as odd that so many religious people require their text to be literally true.

If it were to be definitively proven that the person called Jesus Christ never existed as a historical person on earth, the various Christian churches and organizations would stop at nothing to attempt to discredit this. They would be furious.

On the other hand, if it were definitively proven that Siddartha Gautama, the person who will be called the Buddha, never existed as a historical person on earth, most Buddhists would find it interesting, probably even humorous, and would go on happily practicing Buddhism.

[-] hexonxonx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 7 hours ago

I went to Catholic school (in Canada) and was taught (by priests and nuns) that Christianity probably started as a mushroom cult, Jesus probably didn't exist but was a composite of various wandering prophets/lunatics wandering around about that time (apparently it's been a popular way for idle young men to pick up chicks for centuries), etc... The bible was taught as a (very flawed) historical document and not the literal "word of god" as it was decades before. Even services were performed as comforting archaic rituals rather than stodgy religious services. This was consistent across schools, and even the one that was the seat of a cardinal was no different.

The Catholic religion gets a lot of flack (and deservedly so!), but at least they recognize it's basically just ritualistic bullshit (in Canada at least). Looking back, I think they are just happy to have people in their weird shroomless mushroom cult.

[-] CXORA@aussie.zone 2 points 11 hours ago

Christianity's power rest on Jesus nature as God and human at the same time. Without that the theology would have to be very very different.

Reading the new testament would be informative on this front. It is not about philosophy or morals, it is about Jesus Christ as a specific individual one must suck up to.

[-] BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world 3 points 12 hours ago

That's very interesting to me. I dont know anything about Buddhism, can you explain why Buddists wouldn't be affected much if they found out their relifious figure never existed? I think for christians it would be devastating because it would mean all the promises the bible makes wouldn't come true, like a rewarding after life for it's followers and a punishing afterlife for non-believers. FYI I'm athiest, but I find religion and it's verious practices to be fascinating.

[-] Tin@lemmy.world 5 points 7 hours ago

Because it's not about the person, it's about the Dharma, the teachings. Those exist with or without a historical Buddha, and that's what guides the practice.

Imagine that someone is showing you the moon by pointing at it. You want to look at the moon, not the finger. The Buddha is a finger pointing at the moon.

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 5 points 9 hours ago

Enlightenment isn't about some mystical truth and seeing into the unknown. It's about stripping away the illusions that cloud the way we see this reality. Those stories about the Buddha are ways to illustrate some of those illusions and how others might have come to the realization. It doesn't matter if they really happened. A lot of them are so constructed that they are probably fake, at least to some degree.

One that really affected me was the 72 problems story (or some number lol, I only remember that it's not 99, because 99 problems is from that Jay-z song, but ultimately it doesn't matter how many problems "everyone has").

For the short version, a man goes to the Buddha because he heard he can help him with his problems. He complains about his farm not doing well, his wife nagging, his kids not respecting him, a whole slew of 72 or so problems, and for each one when he asks if the Buddha can help him with that, the Buddha tells him no. Finally he complains that he didn't help him with any problem and the Buddha says "everyone has 72 problems, but I can help you with your 73rd problem: the problem that you have problems. Problems are a fact of life, if you get so bent up about having problems, you're going to have a miserable life because there's always problems. Accept that the problems exist and you'll find peace." And then the guy was enlightened (in that specific aspect of life, since enlightenment isn't a global state but basically just means "learned a deep lesson").

I'd get annoyed at needing to deal with things. Still do sometimes; enlightenment isn't some magical state. But when I notice that that is bugging me, I just remember the 72 problems story and dismiss that 73rd problem from affecting my mood. Which also indirectly helps with the problems themselves, because if you're pissed about having to deal with stuff, you'll be less effective at dealing with them (especially if your mood rubs off on others or attracts trolls). It truly feels like understanding that enabled an easy mode on some aspects of life. If the whole story was made up, it doesn't undo that understanding or eliminate that easy mode.

Whereas I've known Christians who can't understand why atheists don't just go around murdering people because if they don't believe in the Bible, what's even the point of trying to be good?

[-] BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world 3 points 9 hours ago

I like that story a lot, it's a good reminder that we may not be able to change our circumstances but we can always change our attitude. So would you say Buddhism is more of a system of thought and less of a religion? Kinda like stoicism?

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 5 points 8 hours ago

There is a mysticism angle to it with reincarnation and all that, I think something like a belief that you keep coming back until you can achieve true enlightenment or something like that. Imo that stuff is a nice idea but I'm agnostic overall, so my belief in that regard is "who knows?"

But I do really like the Buddhist philosophy and think it has a lot of value because it doesn't have to lean on the mystical side to work. It makes sense with or without any idea of heaven or nirvana. Enlightenment is worthwhile for its own sake.

I don't think Buddhism is unique in that regard. All religions have at least nuggets of valuable philosophy. My personal belief is that Buddhism is denser and broader than most when it comes to that, but I'm no religious scholar so it could just be a lack of knowledge of others.

IMO the best belief systems pick and choose values and lessons based on their own merit rather than having to take or leave the whole package. I also believe that anyone can evaluate those values, as long aa they are thoughtful, honest, and willing to challenge any and all aspects of them. Someone can be more wise than another, but anyone can get there eventually.

[-] BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago

You seem like a very emotionally intelligent person, and I respect you a lot. Thank you for sharing your beliefs with and worldview me. I think we would agree on more than we would differ.

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago

Thanks for the kind words, it feels good to be seen sometimes. You seem thoughtful yourself and I'm happy you asked that original question in good faith. The world would be a nicer place with more like you.

[-] thevoidzero@lemmy.world 5 points 11 hours ago

Because it doesn't change the message at all. And if you follow a religion because you agree with its teachings, does the source really matter??

If you read somewhere you should be kind to others for betterment of the society. You said "that makes sense, I'll do it from now onwards", and you later learn it was a fantasy story and wasn't talking about real life, would you stop being kind? Now replace that with not actively hurting people.

[-] peekingduck@lemm.ee 4 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

This is why Christianity is so scummy. The only reason these shit heels “give back” is because they expect to he rewarded for it. Oh no, we can’t just be kind to be kind, we do it because we are promised something on the back end. Same energy and douchebags who record themselves donating to say the homeless. It’s all about what they get out of the transaction. A fucking pat on the back.

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 4 points 9 hours ago

Even worse, in its effort to capture even the shittiest people, Christianity has created a loophole where its believers can deliberately be shitty while expecting everything to be ok if they confess and repent before the end. Like a divine "sorry you're upset with what I did".

[-] kortex64@jlai.lu 2 points 12 hours ago

Good God, tune the self-righteousness down a notch... I can barely see the screen through the smog of smug oozing from your post.

[-] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 8 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

Good ~~God~~ Buddha

(that's definitely your thing, there's no such smug oozing from anywhere)

[-] kortex64@jlai.lu 2 points 11 hours ago

You may be bathing in it to the point you don't notice it anymore.

[-] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 1 points 10 hours ago

damn ! nobody's coming out unscathed

[-] kortex64@jlai.lu 1 points 10 hours ago
[-] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 1 points 10 hours ago
[-] kortex64@jlai.lu 1 points 9 hours ago

Did that sound good in your head?

[-] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 1 points 9 hours ago

do you mean you can hear what you write in your head ?

[-] kortex64@jlai.lu 1 points 9 hours ago

Lmao what does that even mean?

[-] JPSound@lemmy.world 4 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

Self-righteous, you say? Oozing of smuuuuggg, you say? You're smelling your own upper lip.

[-] abbiistabbii 7 points 11 hours ago

Isn't Allah and God the same god?

[-] Blubber28@lemmy.world 14 points 11 hours ago

Pretty much, but their believers get very upset if you tell them that

[-] abbiistabbii 7 points 10 hours ago

Well the Christians do, in my experience the Muslims are like "yeah, duh".

[-] sunglocto@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

Yes

In arabic allah literally means god

[-] josefo@leminal.space 5 points 22 hours ago

How hard would it actually be to write a sacred book from the ground up, following the same structure? I'm thinking in writing a cryptic book that could easily be interpreted in a lot of ways, but still feel like a real thing, and make another book series that cite it. Like Tolkien did with Elvish, but a book instead of a language.

[-] prole 12 points 13 hours ago
[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 6 points 13 hours ago

The only difference between a religion and a cult, is the number of cultists.

[-] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 11 points 22 hours ago
[-] josefo@leminal.space 1 points 12 hours ago

Oh, they have a sacred book too? TIL

[-] JPSound@lemmy.world 3 points 12 hours ago

Dionetics by L. R. Hubbard

[-] josefo@leminal.space 2 points 10 hours ago

Oh, but that's like shitty science fiction and pseudo science. I was probably referring to something like the book of mormon, the bible and the quram.

Like, start by having a mystical explanation for the world origin (don't mind using science as a base, but mystically interpreted and with a lot of symbols). Then some kind of strict law or precepts for the followers of the protagonist god or gods. Something that antagonizes with the non-believers. Then some poetic books, with very vague symbolism. Then some collection of prophecies, very subject to interpretation, and even better if the prophecies contradict each other. And that would be book 1, that can be "found" in the present by some modern day prophet. That book would serve as the basis of the "new" revelation and interpretation of the prophecies, adding more symbolism, and prophecies, in part two of the book.

That would be if you want to match 1:1 the bible, maybe I can settle in book 1, and have the fiction books to cite it as is, adding the "second part" in the story. I'm thinking in something like Dune, but with the complementary full sacred book, so you could read the book, see that a priest of sorts cites the book, and then go to the book and see if it's a verse taken out of context or it's faithful to the intention of the book, to foreshadow if the priest has his own agenda or not. You could read the book and draw your own conclusion of the meaning of things there. You could share a piece of the universe you are reading about in the book series. Or not do it and just read the book. I see it like an optional companion for a cool book series.

Some books, Dune included, cite pieces of texts in-universe, but you can't read them, only the cites. I think this could be cool.

I wonder if LLM can write something like that, in the same ancient style if instructed to. If the book series is not profitable, I can always start a cult with the source material, like Mr. Hubbard.

[-] BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago

Cthulhu definitely exists. He calls to me in my dreams.

Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!

[-] prole 4 points 13 hours ago

At this point, I would welcome the cosmic horror of the Old Ones

[-] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 13 points 1 day ago

At least cite Amazing Fantasy #15, heretic.

[-] Tillman@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

For some reason I find op citation funnier.

[-] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 55 points 1 day ago

Actually there are many books of Spiderman which means there's more proof for Spiderman than there is for God.

[-] prole 3 points 13 hours ago

And New York City is real, so that means Spiderman is real (this is literally the logic that some Christians use to defend the Bible)

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[-] magic_lobster_party@fedia.io 64 points 1 day ago

I’d rather have Spider-Man as a guide for my morals than that genocidal freak they call God.

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this post was submitted on 29 May 2025
1128 points (100.0% liked)

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