We need to fight back again oppression of bike riders. Electric bikes are genuine revolution in transportation, more so than electric cars even.
Unpopular opinion, both sides should stop running fucking red lights.
Cars running red lights = driver slamming on the gas trying to beat the yellow. 3000kg of steel and glass travelling at 60+km/hr in a crowded city
Bikes "running" red lights = riders looking both ways and coasting through when it's clear... 100kg of flesh and aluminium going 10km/hr
These are not even remotely close to the same levels of danger...
So while everyone should follow the rules, enforcement should focus on those with the potential to do the most damage
Bikes “running” red lights = riders looking both ways and coasting through when it’s clear
FWIW this is not how it works in Philadelphia. Here, a lot of cyclists just sail through red lights and stop intersections without stopping first and without even looking to see if there's any cross-traffic first. As an avid cyclist myself, it absolutely blows my mind how often they do this and somehow avoid dying. There are a lot of bike fatalities here, but it's almost always the result of large trucks turning right across bike lanes and flattening somebody they never saw.
Sure, there are those crazy bike messenger types blowing through red lights at full speed
But thats not the majority of offenders. And still nowhere NEAR the danger of cars doing the same thing, even at lower speeds.
without stopping first
That's normal. Coasting through at low speed uses much less energy than coming to a stop and good bike infrastructure takes that into account. Cars and pedestrians can stop and start easily, bikes, very much not so, so you design intersections, any conflict point, such that bikes merely slow down. The Dutch are brilliant at this with traffic lights which can actually detect who's coming.
My personal approach to cycling is that I never expect anyone to notice me, a result of decades of practice with semi-sensible German bike infrastructure. Yes I'm going to cross on red but noone will have to change their behaviour, react to me in any way. Be like water.
There are a lot of bike fatalities here, but it’s almost always the result of large trucks turning right across bike lanes and flattening somebody they never saw.
Yep don't be there. Even if they're looking out for pedestrians those are slow, you are fast(er), which means that in the time between them looking and them turning you can make it from invisible to the danger zone.
Side note right turns should not be allowed on red, at least not without a sign specifically allowing it at a particular intersection. In 99.9% of cases it's unsafe.
These are E-bikes we're talking about. They can be quite fast. Some can do 50-60 even. Killing people is certainly possible. Requiring both to obey traffic signals, isn't unreasonable.
Pretty sure in the EU they are supposed to be limited to 25kmh, which is the upper speed limit for bike lanes too
Speed-pedelecs are allowed to go 45kmh and are allowed both on bike lanes and car lanes in the Netherlands. They have a license plate as well, looks like a regular ebike.
I'll take a hit from an ebike over a speeding car any day of the week
They also weigh as much as their rider sometimes. Easily 300+ lbs with a full grown man on them.
Please show me an ebike that weighs 150 lbs...
Easier to show you a full grown man who weighs 300+ pounds all by himself ...
Yes, if we compare the most dangerous example of a driver running a red light with the safest example of a cyclist doing so, the driver looks worse.
Obviously cars running red lights is more dangerous but this is pretty disingenuous way to frame it.
Ok, lets do the worst case scenario for a bike....the bike BLOWS through the intersection at 60km/h like those crazy bike messengers on youtube... It still has only a tiny fraction of the kinetic energy of a car and low probability of killing or maiming someone.
Have you seen a person get hit by a bike at 60km/h? Watch pro bike racing. It happens once in a while (opi omi lady) . Most of the time the victim gets up and walks away. Worst case they end up in the hospital with broken bones.
Have you seen a person get hit by vehicle at 60? I haven't (thank god) but 25% chance of death and 50% chance of severe injury (i would imagine life altering)
People should not be licenced to operate a vehicle if they cant understand basic physics and the VAST gap in danger between drivers not following the rules and cyclists not following the rules
10 kph is about 6 mph, which is walking speed. Cycling would be closer to twice that, or more.
Nah, walking speed is ~5kph, and a good pace on a bike is about 20kph
That’s 4x the speed and thus 16x the kinetic energy. It’s quite a big difference.
So brave.
I doubt that's unpopular.
It should be, because it’s actually less safe for bikes to come to a full stop at red lights and stop signs.
Safer when it is legalized. If I as a driver know bikes are allowed to go through stops, then I expect it and adjust accordingly. If it’s not legal then I expect them to stop like everyone else and am surprised when they don’t.
Very interesting and counterintuitive.
It is at first, but it makes sense when you consider that bikes take longer to come up to speed than cars do, and have a much more limited capacity to get out of the way when they’re not at speed. So if you make bikes lose and regain that speed many times while riding, multiplied by many bikers, eventually one of them is going to wind up encountering a driver that’s not paying attention while they’re leaving a stop sign.
I’m sure that’s not the only reason, but I’d be surprised if it wasn’t a reason.
Commenters here are missing the reason police are issuing court summons:
Some advocates for delivery workers say that the increased scrutiny of cyclists weighs especially heavily on an already vulnerable group. Many people who ride electric bikes in New York are undocumented migrants working for restaurants and food delivery apps, said Ligia Guallpa, the executive director of Los Deliveristas Unidos, which represents delivery workers. The crackdown on electric bikes and scooters comes in the midst of the Trump administration’s aggressive enforcement of immigration law.
Sal Cohen is among the immigrants who received a pink court summons connected to the increased enforcement effort. Originally from Turkey, and in the United States on a conditional green card, Mr. Cohen had not heard about the push when he rolled through a red light at the intersection of Grand Street and Union Avenue in Brooklyn’s Williamsburg neighborhood on his way home from the gym this month.
A squad car pulled up alongside him and he was issued a summons.
A week and a half later, Mr. Cohen, 28, stood in line outside Courtroom No. 3, on the 16th floor of the municipal building, worried that ICE agents might appear.
“I’m here legally, but you never know,” he said. “I’m nervous.”
So, new edition of the "war on drugs" I see.
Everyone should read the words of one of Nixon's top aides regarding why they started the war on drugs:
“The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people,” former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper’s writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday.
“You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities,” Ehrlichman said. “We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
And yet the wikipedia entry for the war on drugs starts like this:
The war on drugs is a global anti-narcotics campaign led by the United States federal government, including drug prohibition, foreign assistance, military intervention, and counterterrorism, with the aim of reducing the illegal drug trade in the US.
Emphasis added. I would say that is flat out false. It may be the openly stated aim, but it is not the true aim, and they've admitted it. Just another reminder that these fascists know exactly what the fuck they're doing and that wikipedia is subject to propaganda influences.
Running them, or using the Idaho Stop? Huge difference.
But even still, if the consequences for cyclists are greater than those for drivers, then something is seriously messed up.
Right-turn on red is enough to get a ticket, even if both streets have bike lanes. Don't ask me how I know....
Good. As someone who is all for biking and public transit infrastructure, the number of idiot cyclists running red lights in my town is entirely unacceptable, and far outnumbers the cars I see running lights. They're going to get themselves killed, and get some innocent driver thrown in prison for their own stupid mistakes in the process.
Cyclists have an incredibly dangerous, toxic culture when it comes to ignoring traffic laws (in the US at least), and it's really satisfying seeing them actually face the consequences of their actions for once.
Cyclists have an incredibly dangerous, toxic culture when it comes to ignoring traffic laws,
motorists have an incredibly dangerous, GAS POWERED, MULTI TON WEAPON that is regularly used to harass and threaten cyclists. It would be really satisfying to see them get punished for all the anti-cyclist hate and violence.
As a cyclist I agree. So many want to be whatever is most convenient for them at the moment. Pedestrian, vehicle, whatever, I'm sick of it too.
Can't they face the consequences through DMV fines on threat of arrest instead of court appearances that just go the same way?
Can't comment on NYC, but a huge chunk of cyclists in my area are genuinely reckless, Ebikes or not. I can understand that bikes are less dangerous than cars, but that doesn't mean bikes can't kill or injure anyone.
Cyclists are the most obnoxious and entitled participants in traffic. They behave like everything belongs to them, they always fly through crosswalks at supersonic speeds looking at the ground because looking up fucks their aerodynamics like they are in some fucking championship (even though in my country you need to step down as you cross the roads or at least fucking slow down and look left and right if you ignore the law that much). Oh and red lights? They don't seem to apply to them.
Damn, that sounds a lot more annoying than slamming into a pedestrian with a two ton vehicle and killing them.
I'm sorry to hear that's how it is in your country. Where I am, cyclists nearly walk through crosswalks for safety and commuters do not have supersonic muscles nor endurance. And IIRC you've better aero looking up because the helmets are designed that way.
The bicycle infrastructure is decades behind the Europeans, especially the Netherlands and the large cities in Germany. For example, there are traffic signals controlling bicycle traffic. The other problem, the lawyers can defend an idiot running red lights on a bicycle.
especially [...] the large cities in Germany
Laughing and crying in Berlin here after just three near death experiences on my way to work.
If they can catch me, nyoom.
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