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submitted 1 month ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

Russia has moved to classify key demographic statistics following a dramatic collapse in its birth rate, which has plunged to levels not seen since the late 18th or early 19th century, according to a leading Russian demographer.

For decades, Russia has been experiencing a plunging birth rate and population decline, which appears to have worsened amid its ongoing invasion of Ukraine—with high casualty rates and men fleeing the country to avoid being conscripted to fight.

Projections estimate that Russia's population will fall to about 132 million in the next two decades. The United Nations has predicted that in a worst-case scenario, by the start of the next century, Russia's population could almost halve to 83 million.

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[-] magnetosphere@fedia.io 171 points 1 month ago

It amuses me that world leaders pretend to be surprised by declining birth rates. They know perfectly well that it’s because of their and/or their neighbors policies. The environment is being poisoned, and possibly destroyed. People are reluctant to bring a child into this world, and I think they’re right to be.

[-] JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz 63 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

And even ones that want kids take one look at the economy and their bank accounts, and decide to wait until both look better, because they want to be able to afford the kids a happy childhood. The worst thing for population growth is giving people the ability to choose when, if ever, to get kids, and an environment they don't want to have them in.

Two ways to fix that issue. Which one is used tells a lot.

[-] match@pawb.social 35 points 1 month ago

also, people don't got the space or the time to fuck

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[-] WanderingThoughts@europe.pub 15 points 1 month ago

But it's unthinkable for these leaders to change the policies that gave them the power and wealth they desire, so they're gonna run with it until it falls apart, no matter the cost for everyone else.

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[-] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 110 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

…Wow.

So what’s the tankie angle to this? From that perspective, the war is objectively awful for Russia, even if all the stated war goals are true.

[-] neidu3@sh.itjust.works 80 points 1 month ago

The beloved and benevolent putin is merely protecting the country from the overpopulation seen in the west.

[-] warm@kbin.earth 28 points 1 month ago

There's no overpopulation in the west. Fertility rates are too low to maintain the current population.

[-] CmdrShepard42@lemm.ee 75 points 1 month ago

Well, they didn't say the angle had to be factual.

[-] warm@kbin.earth 13 points 1 month ago

You got that right!

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[-] resipsaloquitur@lemm.ee 57 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The tankie angle is that it’s NATO’s fault. Would never have happened if mean old west hadn’t invaded Ukraine and genocided Russian-speakers who are ethnically and linguistically identical to Ukrainians but also totally different and superior but also must be defended by daddy Vladdy.

And also Ukraine is an inseparable part of Russia, especially Crimea. Khrushchev was only kidding when he gave Crimea to Ukraine, which isn’t a real country.

And the west totally broke its verbal promise that no one’s ever heard to never allow another country into NATO. But The Budapest Memorandum wasn’t worth the paper it was written on. For some reason.

You just don’t understand Russian history. Russia has a very long memory. When it comes to grievances. Theirs.

You’re just russophobic.

[-] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I don't think I've ever gotten one of them to even acknowledge the Budapest memorandum.

Though I do like to point out that they're the biggest western chauvinists ever if they genuinely think NATO somehow forced putin into emptying Russia's soviet stocks of vehicles and ammo in the most disastrous invasion in recent history.

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[-] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 45 points 1 month ago

So what’s the tankie angle to this?

“Sure this news is bad, but what about this non sequitur?”

[-] Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world 20 points 1 month ago

"see! Putin is pro environment! Less people is better!"

[-] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago

Ah, the Genghis Khan defence. Bold move!

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[-] Fisch@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 1 month ago

Tf does tankie even mean at this point? As a communist, I'm not on the side of any state, I'm on the side of the people dying needlessly in both countries. Anyone who identifies themselves as a communist and has more than 2 brain cells should know that this isn't a football match where you root for your favorite team. Aside from the fact that russia isn't the USSR anymore anyway, it's just another capitalist country. Both governments suck but the Ukrainian one wasn't at fault for this war at all.

[-] Bravo@eviltoast.org 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

"Tankie" means "person who, in a confrontation between citizens and tanks, roots for the tanks". It's more a reference to a person's underlying authoritarianism rather than communism per se. The main reason it's conflated with communism/marxism is because capitalism has, conceptually, staked a claim to the protectorship of individualism, which is assumed to be desirable. And because this claim is unchallenged, anything which stands against capitalism is assumed to therefore be inherently authoritarian. There is some merit to this claim and these assumptions, but to what extent, I couldn't say. I'm not that smart.

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[-] flandish@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

war is always bad for the working class. nothing new here.

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[-] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 87 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

step 1: send your men to a pointless war
step 2: potential mothers realize their sons would only be meat in the meat grinder
step 3: nobody wants to have children anymore
step 4: be confused??

[-] Smoogs@lemmy.world 40 points 1 month ago

Don’t forget removing any relief for people having kids. And dissolve their quality of life. That always goes over so well in completely diminishing any chance of population growth. Just ask Kim jung un

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[-] Ledericas@lemm.ee 21 points 1 month ago

step1.5; men fleeing to other countries to avoid war.

[-] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 75 points 1 month ago

Kinda rough to have babies if most of your men are being turned into fertilizer.

[-] PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world 22 points 1 month ago

Russian meat to sunflower oil pipeline

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[-] ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org 32 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's the Russian resistance's long game: in 10 years, there won't be enough young people left to send to die at the front, so the war will naturally peter out.

[-] Nomad@infosec.pub 14 points 1 month ago
[-] mrodri89@lemmy.zip 31 points 1 month ago

My vaginas baking equipment would shrivel up too if Putin was my leader. Much like it's reaction to Americans leadership.

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[-] drhodl@lemmy.world 31 points 1 month ago

Even russian women don't like russians.

[-] Bravo@eviltoast.org 11 points 1 month ago

I think the implication is actually that there's a marked dropoff of eligible young Russian men. To preserve a generation, Russia might soon need to use more North Koreans on the Ukrainian front, but that comes with its own problems and risks.

It's weird that Putin's avoiding peace negotiations, as he more than anyone needs to find a way to scale back the war effort before his hold on power begins to waver. I get that he needs to save face while doing so, but he's not gonna get conditions more favorable than a Trump administration, so the clock is ticking.

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[-] KiESi@lemm.ee 29 points 1 month ago

Looks like death rates are up though.

[-] CatGPT@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

No one wants to live in putins world

Shit i mean meow

[-] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

That's not unique to Russia. Birth rates in developed nations have been plummeting across the board. The only reason the US was escaping it and hanging out around replacement was because of immigration, and, well, I don't know if you've been keeping up with the news lately, but it seems like that's going to change.

There's lots of reasons driving demographic collapse, but I don't think war is one of them. South Korea is usually heralded as the shining example of demographic collapse because their birth rate is the worst by far, and it generally seems to be the case that as economies becomes more "advanced", women have less time and supports to focus on motherhood, and so just choose not to have kids. I put advanced in scare quotes because it seems to me that a truly advanced economy wouldn't footgun itself with rapid demographic collapse. Not to say that the trend shouldn't be towards a smaller population that will tax the Earth's resources less, but the way to get there safely for civilization isn't by falling off a cliff.

[-] brot@feddit.org 24 points 1 month ago

Other countries also have the problems with the birth rates, but Putin is accelerating that. Murdering and crippling his young men in a senseless war. Keeping millions of men in the army away from home, far away from their girlfriends. Pushing people to leave the country, if they can. The problem might be there without Putin, but the war is making it so much worse

[-] frezik@midwest.social 20 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Russia has a unique problem, and it is war. Just not the war in Ukraine by itself.

WWII was absolutely devastating to the Soviet Union's population. Tons of "excess females", which means there were so many men killed that women could not find a husband. The baby boom did not happen there; kinda the opposite. This affects both modern Russia and Ukraine.

Every 20 years or so, there is an "echo" of that loss in their population pyramid. It's a drop in ~~birth rates~~ new births from a relative lack of young adults starting families for part of the cycle. The echo reduces with each cycle, of course, but one of them is hitting right now. Putin is now amplifying that echo by having another war with such high losses.

Edit: clarified some wording.

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[-] rammer@sopuli.xyz 12 points 1 month ago

Population will fall to about 132 million in the next two decades

Which means that it already is that low. If you don't count the parts of Ukraine that Russia thinks it owns and the hundreds of thousands of young people who fled the country earlier in the war.

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[-] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

yea putin, fuck the world up and then complain that people are not making kids. we will all die in our own filth when the infrastructure collapses and you can wipe your ass with all that money and power

[-] Litebit@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

If they classify it, it means it's a lot worse. Ukraine should send more steriliser over to russia.

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this post was submitted on 20 May 2025
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