1474
submitted 1 day ago by Ace120C@sopuli.xyz to c/linux@lemmy.ml

I go to a programming school, where there were computers running ancient windows 8 and some were on windows 10, they ran really slow and were completely unrelaible when doing the tasks that are required, those computers in question had either i5-4750 (I think?) or i7-4970 so running windows 10 with all its bloat was not going to be an easy task for em, so long story short I decided to talk to the principal about it explaining why linux is so much better than windows and gave him reasons why linux will be better for us for education and he agreed after considering it for a bit, he let me know that some students play roblox or minecraft in middle of the lesson and he asks if linux would stop em from doing that, I stated that as long as they dont know how to work with wine/lutris or know any specific linux packages that run windows games on linux they should not be able to play in the middle of lessons. he gave me the green light to do it, so I spent like 3 days migrating like 20+ computers to linux (since I had to set them up and install some required applications for them) in the last day where I was doing a last check up on the PCs to make sure they are in working order, there was a computer having a problem of which where it didnt boot, I let the principal know about this to get permission to work on it, he said yes, so after some troubleshooting I realized the boot order was all screwed, so since Ive worked with arch before I knew how to fix it, I booted up linux mint live image, chrooted, and fixed the boot order and computer went back to life, prinicipal came in checked on everything to make sure everything works, told me to wait for a bit, and then came back and paid me for his troubles (was a bit of a surprised since I expected nothing of the sort), the next day I came to school, sat down, turned PC on, noticed something was in the trash bin, opened it, found "robloxinstall.exe" on it, told the principal about it, he was pleased with it, so now 2 weeks later he seems now to be confident about linux, as he told me there is another class he is considering to move to linux.

so my question here would be: does this mean linux now is ready for the education sector?

(considering now, that I got a win win situation, I get to use an OS that I like in school, students gets to focus on the lessons instead of slacking.)

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[-] jcs@lemmy.world 2 points 45 minutes ago

Linux has been ready for some time within various educational programs, but maybe you are referring to relatively early education curriculum in public schools? The general anecdotes I've heard from teachers within a variety of grade levels in the USA (mostly elementary and high school levels, but some doctoral engineering/scientific as well) convey that the largest hurdles to overcome are:

  1. Teaching the teachers. Teachers are usually very smart and capable, but are often chronically overworked, overstressed, and underpaid for their labor. They have limited mental bandwidth in learning new tech workflows while having the added obligation of teaching these workflows to students which may be at an attention/interest deficit.
  2. Challenging the status quo at the administrative level. Schools often receive incentives, grants, steep discounts, etc, for installing certain types of hardware or software packages. The software baselines of some schools are restricted at the district level; many public libraries are restricted by the city/county. Perhaps the best approach here is to install Linux as a "secondary" option (similar to how a smaller number of e.g. Macs may be installed in a computer lab comprised mostly of Windows computers) until it's more widely adopted.
  3. Advocating for equivalent Linux support for popular proprietary software. This is especially true for the creative design community, such as graphic design and professional music production. Adobe is usually the target of criticism here; Linux does not currently hold enough market share to capture Adobe's attention while their patrons usually have unwavering brand loyalty or are unwilling to make any tooling/workflow compromises as to maintain their livelihood.
  4. FOSS-friendly awareness campaigns. Showing people that they can remain productive while not being at the mercy of Big Tech. Not using public funds for private industry.
  5. Feature parity case studies compared to proprietary options.
  6. Overcoming the stereotype that Linux is only for techy people, shrouded by gatekeepers, or subject to drama/infighting.
[-] leaf 3 points 2 hours ago

Now I want to attend your school!

[-] muusemuuse@lemm.ee 15 points 5 hours ago

I've actually been using linux with older customers for years. It solves several problems. First, it lets them get more life out of their older machines. Second, its free. Third, the kind of malware that targets linux systems isnt really a factor for little old man on facebook. Finally, when scammers call, they cant establish credibility with my customers. They get in, remote access barely works thanks to wayland not liking their tools yet. The entire system looks different and the commands are different so they dont understand how it works but the customer does. So the scam falls apart where they try to prove they know what they are talking about because they cant use the terminal properly. It always ends the same way. My customers get suspicious and say "I'm going to call my computer guy" and the hang up.

This trick has been successful for years and my users are very happy not to have to deal with microsoft's bullshit. The fact that it confuses the hell out of scammers is just a nice bonus.

[-] Ace120C@sopuli.xyz 5 points 4 hours ago

its always funny to see scammers struggle with bash, I remember seeing a video about that and its so funny

[-] Jocker@sh.itjust.works 10 points 5 hours ago
[-] Alaknar@lemm.ee 21 points 7 hours ago

I love Linux. I'm running Linux and love the experience.

But...

~~i7-4970~~ i7-4790 so running windows 10 with all its bloat was not going to be an easy task for em

What in the world are you talking about, man??

Even ignoring the silliness of the "bloat" - i7-4790 eats Win10 alive and asks for seconds.

I stated that as long as they dont know how to work with wine/lutris or know any specific linux packages that run windows games on linux they should not be able to play in the middle of lessons

So... No, you didn't stop them from doing that. All it takes for them to get back to playing games is to google "linux roblox how to" and 20 minutes later they're good to go. Windows has AppLocker, and GPO to prevent running unwanted software - have you researched alternatives for Linux?

does this mean linux now is ready for the education sector?

Well, depends on scale. The setup you did is fine for, what, a single classroom? Two classrooms? It's completely unusable for a larger school - for that you need an MDM solution, ideally with some form of IAM. In the Windows world that's SCCM/Intune with AD/EID (local/cloud). Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's only bare-bones equivalents in the Linux world for that, which would be the bigger a problem the larger a school you'd be dealing with.

[-] the_q@lemm.ee 15 points 6 hours ago

Wow you really went out of your way to yuck OPs yum.

[-] Alaknar@lemm.ee 4 points 3 hours ago

Yeah, I guess I sound a bit aggressive. That wasn't the intention. I just get an allergic reaction when I see the "Linux is just better than Windows now!" stuff. It is - in some scenarios. In others it's worse. Someone who wants to do IT (and it kinda' sounds like OP's heading there) needs to understand that.

[-] muusemuuse@lemm.ee 5 points 5 hours ago

SCCM is on life support. Microsoft wants everyone to use autopilot now and many places cant or wont use cloud shit. I actually worked for a place that couldn't use it for legal reasons.

We set up a FOG server and that was that. Fuck the cloud.

[-] Alaknar@lemm.ee 2 points 3 hours ago

Just FYI - SCCM is not the Autopilot equivalent, it's the Intune equivalent. Intune's Autopilot is, kind of, what Task Sequence is in SCCM.

As far as "life support" goes - it's full featured. Security updates are still coming in, not much else they can add feature-wise in there.

As for the cloud - everything has its uses. Cloud is great if you don't want to deal with all the bare-metal stuff. It allows one person to do the work of four, with the trade-off being that you lose some of the fine-tuning, control, or optimisation. As the saying goes: "the 's' in 'Intune" stands for 'speed'".

Don't fuck the cloud. Just use it when it's better than on-prem.

[-] muusemuuse@lemm.ee 1 points 2 hours ago

The cloud has one plus in modern infrastructure. It gives you someone else to blame for shit breaking. My old boss told worded it best. “I want just one throat to choke”

[-] phx@lemmy.ca 4 points 6 hours ago

There are many ways to skin the cat for centralized login in Linux, including using Samba-AD or just LDAP.

Patching is IMO less fun. Landscape can work for Ubuntu but it's finicky, and I haven't really found anything satisfactory (FOSS) for patch management if multiple Debian systems. Setting up "unattended-upgrades" does tend to handle most of it but that doesn't give centralized control or visibility.

[-] Alaknar@lemm.ee 1 points 3 hours ago

It's honestly extremely surprising to me that there aren't still any proper FOSS solutions that handle this. Is it because it's super difficult to do? I've no idea, but it's definitely something that's preventing a lot of businesses to switch over.

[-] hornedfiend@sopuli.xyz 2 points 5 hours ago

Wish I could do that when my school computers had Dos and Turbo Pascal. Ah, the good old himem.sys times. Miles better than W11.

[-] Ace120C@sopuli.xyz 1 points 4 hours ago
[-] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 13 points 8 hours ago

Well done! Protip: You can use double new lines to format paragraphs. And full-stops.

Nicely done! That’s pretty awesome :)

Though I should point out that it’s also not hard to lock down a windows install a bit more if you don’t make the default account an admin one. But moving to Linux is better imo for a whole host of reasons.

[-] andybytes@programming.dev 3 points 6 hours ago

You are doing the lords work and I ain't even a christian

[-] towelie@lemm.ee 24 points 10 hours ago

You just taught the next generation about compatibility layers! Well done my man

[-] Ace120C@sopuli.xyz 3 points 6 hours ago
[-] Xatolos@reddthat.com 34 points 13 hours ago

so my question here would be: does this mean linux now is ready for the education sector?

No, not for elementary/HS. You have to understand that schools aren't regular users. They will have 2 top priorities:

  1. Hardware vender support. There isn't any vendor that can/does support the volume and pricing that a school will do. While some major vendors are starting to offer Linux pre-installed, they aren't apart of their educational vendor options.
  2. They need to have a "drag and drop" security suite. Schools don't have large/well skilled IT department, so they rely on security suites that "tick off all the boxes". This allows them an excuse is suddenly little Timmy has porn on their school computers. (This is one of those reasons ChromeOS is becoming so popular. They can issue a device, have the student only have a Google Workspace for Education account, and then walk away. Easy and simple. And yes, there are many websites that can tell you how to get around it, but then the school gets to turn around and claim the student "hacked" it and is in violation of rules X, Y, and Z to which the parent can also be held responsible.)

Until these two issues are solved, Linux won't be ready for the public education sector. (When the parent issues the device, all rules are gone since it's up to the parent what limits to place, and all the school will say is that the device must be able to run programs X, Y, and Z.)

[-] Littux@lemmy.world 3 points 5 hours ago

Every government school here uses Linux. And there's no security (password is "password" even for root account). The only reason it works is because everyone has common sense on what they shouldn't do. The worst any kid could do is visit a "bad" site on a browser because no one knows how to do anything else.

Even the exam software assumes you don't know how things in Linux works:

  • The scores and answers are stored in simple non-encrypted SQLite3 databases at a directory in /usr/share.
  • During the exam, the panel for launching applications is hidden, so you can't cheat on questions like "What does this tool do in GIMP?" by opening GIMP. But you can just do Ctrl + Alt + T to launch the Terminal and Alt + Tab to switch to it.

I easily qualified for a State level competition where the education minister visited and had big news agencies visiting that made up a lot of nonsense. You can probably guess what the average student will be like from this

[-] bluewing@lemm.ee 3 points 11 hours ago

Linux is kind of sort is already in elementary and high school use. Schools in my state are often issuing Chromebooks to students for use. They are cheap, easy to manage and get support for, and can do the things students need to do. And the only ones really using all those old Macs that infest schools are the teachers. Though in my local school, the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th grades are using iPads but switch to Chromebooks in 5th grade.

One can complain about google being evil all you want, but they do offer all the free tools schools and teachers and students need for their lessons.And if COVID taught schools anything it was that we could teach classes online if necessary-- no more snow days.

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[-] Biyoo 33 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

And if they learn about wine and lutris and manage to install Roblox, they'll probably get more out of it than by listening to the class in the first place !

I learned so much by circumventing the school security stuff. I probably wouldn't be in IT if not for the parental control limitations and school network blocks

[-] vandsjov@feddit.dk 4 points 6 hours ago

Back in the DOS and Windows 3.1 days, they tried to lock it down with whatever software they had. We found a way around it. Even the DOS based menu system, we managed to copy the menu software out with its configuration file. Then we experimented with the “encrypted” password in the configuration file and found out that if we removed it, the system would allow you to do anything but that also meant we could create our own password and look at the “encrypted” password. We quickly found out that it was just shifting the ASCII table. We then “decrypted” the school password. Such 12 your old hackers 😆

[-] Ace120C@sopuli.xyz 7 points 12 hours ago

yes exactly, its a win win all around

[-] aqua_cat@pawb.social 8 points 11 hours ago
[-] Ace120C@sopuli.xyz 13 points 10 hours ago

we agreed on mint, so I had to put that in since I was trying to get the principal to not use "windows is more familiar" excuse

[-] muusemuuse@lemm.ee 2 points 5 hours ago

When I was a kid, what was more familiar didnt matter. We used macs in schools. My little brother comes in and it was all Dells with windows, but the school had decided the teach MS office and OpenOffice side by side because "Microsoft is not the future."

It's in a red state so that initiative didnt last long. They went full MS later and regretted the decision ever since. Others have shifted to chromebooks but that district is still on microsoft crap now for the same reason they still waste time teaching cursive: Older Karens with no knowledge but lots of opinions.

[-] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 25 points 15 hours ago

Hey OP, regarding Minecraft: It's a Java program that uses OpenGL for rendering. Therefore it's not a Windows game, but inherently cross platform. Here's the official .deb package https://launcher.mojang.com/download/Minecraft.deb

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[-] kylian0087@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

For such a setup I think it Is a good idea to look in to freeipa/idm. Would make management a load more easy. centralized account control and being able to sit at any PC and login with your own credentials is one of the many benefits.

[-] muusemuuse@lemm.ee 3 points 5 hours ago

Don't distros like ubuntu and fedora tie into active directory pretty cleanly anymore? You could use your schools existing infrastructure with linux clients

[-] Abnorc@lemm.ee 33 points 16 hours ago

Are you now the IT support guy for these workstations, or is the school's IT going to take over maintenance. I guess you have an internship or something if you are.

[-] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 22 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

the school’s IT

I wonder if that even exists. A mix of Windows 8 (EoL) and 10 (almost EoL) running on Haswells with students freely installing Roblox... all gives an unmaintained vibe.

[-] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 6 points 13 hours ago

And this is supposed to be a tech school....

[-] muusemuuse@lemm.ee 1 points 4 hours ago

Sounds like ITT technical institute. God I hated working with the "graduates" they put out. Absolute morons.

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[-] Samsy@lemmy.ml 9 points 14 hours ago

Did the same some years ago. It was for the gap between win7 and 10.

Everyone told me it was the best productive time. Because users can't install stuff and my network blocked a lot of dumb shit.

But now we got new win 11 PCs and every user is back on solitaire or shady websites.

[-] tibi@lemmy.world 23 points 17 hours ago

When I was in high school, computers had Deep Freeze setup, because kids would constantly break the OS and download malware. It's a software that resets the C drive to a known state on every reboot. You might consider using something similar on classroom workstations.

Also, it might be worth learning about network booting, automating the Linux installer and ansible to install things on every machine at once and automate configuration work.

[-] LiveLM@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 hours ago

I've always wondered how these solutions worked but never found much info about 'em

[-] beastlykings@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 hours ago

I was thinking more like using an immutable or atomic os instead, like bazzite or bluefin. At least then you get regular updates, and core functionality is safely protected.

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[-] bonnashejve@europe.pub 9 points 14 hours ago

When I studied in university - all our computer classes were running Linux, and it was many years ago! Linux proved its effectiveness. When we had russian cyber attack on our banks (virus Petya)- our bank system survived thanks to Linux). Nowadays when twitter, facebook chose nazism - there is only one option to go to decentralized media

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[-] lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network 15 points 16 hours ago

Little side note

those computers in question had either i5-4750 (I think?) or i7-4970 so running windows 10 with all its bloat was not going to be an easy task

The i7-4790K is still quite powerful, so I'm pretty sure this wasn't the problem, at all. Perhaps they're running on an HDD, have little RAM, or you got the CPU wrong.

You can see the CPU and RAM by launching System Info from tbf start menu, and see if it's running on an SSD or HDD by launching Disks from the menu.

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[-] brbposting@sh.itjust.works 29 points 19 hours ago

Roblox in the trash AHAHAHAHA

Beautiful effort!!

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this post was submitted on 01 May 2025
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Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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