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submitted 3 months ago by grue@lemmy.world to c/fuckcars@lemmy.world
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[-] tasho 29 points 3 months ago

cute! I love informative comics like this.

people always jump to assuming creating an infrastructure that requires less reliance on cars means a flat out ban on cars when really we just desperately need more alternatives to being stuck on the car-only model. of course, rural areas and disabilities and such will mean that cars are sometimes necessary, but there's so much that a fully functional public transit system can do!!

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[-] kimara@sopuli.xyz 23 points 3 months ago

One addition to this is also winter upkeep, which is very relevant in Finland.

People like to talk about "winter cycling", because it's somehow so much different from "every other season cycling". Mainly it comes down to winter upkeep; snow plowing and such. Then some people complain how nobody rides in the winter and they shouldn't use too much budget for it.

It would be fun to see people talk about "winter driving". How much we actually spend making driving possible during the winter.

[-] duhbasser@lemm.ee 10 points 3 months ago

Where I live in the US that’s in the millions, hundreds of millions even. Also, if that budget dries up then they don’t plow shit. They’ll usually get an emergency fund but it takes a few days, while it’s snowing…

[-] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 5 points 3 months ago

It's not just spending money. In my city, we're poisoning the groundwater with road salt to support winter driving. One well near me has sodium levels in the water high enough that the water utility has issued a no-drink advisory for people with hypertension.

[-] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 18 points 3 months ago

"Cars aren't a symbol of freedom. They are a symbol of dependence in places designed to be prisons without them."

Paraphrased from a book I read (sorry, it was 10+ years ago)

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[-] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 17 points 3 months ago

Ain't that true. As a car mechanic(in asia), i used to not think about it for a long time, but lately the cost of owning a car seems to bug me to no end. Often in busy day, someone will come in with a breakdown which might take a few hours to do because of the workload, and the reply i get from them is "can you do mine first? I'm in a hurry and i need the car, without it i can't get anywhere". Or someone came in with a badly maintained car, where they have to delay a lot of simple but crucial repair because they're short on money. Or ignore an oil leak while topping up oil constantly because they have no time to get it fixed, which sometimes cost even more in total.

I just paid nearly 1/4 of my monthly salary to fix my 20 years old car, and that's only for the part. Can't get a used car because i need the cash, can't get a new car because i don't wanna have more mortgage. It's crippling if you're poor. It's simply bullshit when people use the poor to justify car-centric development.

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[-] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 16 points 3 months ago

Can confirm.

My car has been "on loan" to my parents for a year. I'm lucky to live in an area with decent public trans, but my sense of freedom is definitely vastly diminished.

[-] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 11 points 3 months ago

You have public trans? Can you just like rent them for a while or how does it work?

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[-] glowie@infosec.pub 16 points 3 months ago

How does a theoretical case of not having insurance companies make a car non-driveable?

[-] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 18 points 3 months ago

Because auto-insurance is a requirement in some country.

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[-] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 14 points 3 months ago

Owning or renting a home has the same requirements of dependency on multiple companies. Sure, in a city or large town or even some.small towns we could live without cars if we built the infrastructure.

But there will always be rural areas where cars make sense. Insurance would be a lot cheaper without all the city folk driving...

[-] Little_mouse@lemmy.ca 21 points 3 months ago

In Japan they have rail lines that seamlessly integrate with the metro system of large cities.

And even if cars for rural users is necessary, their driving experience will be much smoother if all the other people have good access to transit.

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[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 15 points 3 months ago

Owning or renting a home has the same requirements of dependency on multiple companies

Are you suggesting people go without homes? And that's analogous to going without a car?

Maybe you're really radical and want free public housing like people want free public transit, but that's far outside the overton window.

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[-] uis@lemm.ee 4 points 3 months ago

In rural areas everyone uses either bikes or railways.

[-] Washedupcynic@lemm.ee 9 points 3 months ago

I grew up with great public transit, and having access to a bicycle, (NYC.) In my 20s I realized that attempting to own and maintain a car would be so expensive that I would not be able to save money for the future. I ride my bike everywhere. If I want to go somewhere more than 50 miles away, or where transit doesn't go, I rent a car. I rent a car maybe 2x a year tops. Depending on how long I'm renting the car I probably spend $400 a year on rentals + insurance. My last bike I had for 20 years. Cost me $1400 brand new, spread that cost out over 20 years, owning the bike cost me $70 a year. It was easy to repair myself, and the tools to repair it were inexpensive to purchase. Fuck cars indeed.

[-] RymrgandsDaughter@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago

true but America hates public transportation

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[-] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 8 points 3 months ago

This doesn't make any sense. The only way to move around without depending on other companies is by walking, and there's no way that can replace cars, trains, buses, bicycles, etc.

Not depending on anyone else is not a sensible goal. We live in a society.

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[-] moakley@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

Isn't anyone else disturbed by the concept of independence being a problem for this person?

I'd like more public transportation in America, but I'm not really interested in anything else they have to say.

[-] turmacar@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago

The concept of independence can be a problem because it tends to manifest in a "I'm a lone ranger that doesn't need anyone" mentality.

If you're someone who generally just wants to live alone off-grid in a cabin in the woods and interact with people once a year that's fine.

If you're massively dependent on your neighbors and international trade and are in a self-destructive anger spiral about it because the realities of living in society damage your sense of self-worth, which has been tied to the fiction that everyone is an island, it's an issue.

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[-] grue@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

No, because your premise is incorrect. This person is completely in support of the concept of independence, but simply rejects the notion that car-dependency provides it. Real independence is achieved by removing the dependency on cars.

[-] moakley@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

You didn't read the second line?

"Now the whole idea of independence is a messy social construct with a bunch of issues that I won't get into right now."

I don't see how anyone could interpret that as anything other than a blanket statement about independence.

I searched up the artist to find more evidence and saw that I wasn't the only one who thought that, because they posted a follow-up attempting to clarify that specific line. The clarification just reiterates the point of the original comic and doesn't try to explain why that phrasing was used or what it could have meant.

So maybe they just phrased it poorly, but I'm not the only one who took issue with it.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

Acknowledging that a concept is complicated is different from being opposed to it. You deciding to interpret the statement the latter way instead of the former is your own problem, not theirs.

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[-] logos@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 months ago

How is claiming that independence is a complicated, nuanced concept problematic?

It sounds like you are interpreting it as if they are saying it doesn't exist or something similar which is not at all what they said.

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[-] callyral@pawb.social 5 points 3 months ago

Also, people younger than the legal age for driving are unable to get around safely and independently if they live somewhere car-dependent. I know this from personal experience (although where I live car dependency is not the only problem of course)

[-] Flisty@mstdn.social 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

@callyral @grue don't forget disabled people. Cars are always touted as the solution for disability but there are *many* disabilities which completely remove driving as a possibility (blindness, epilepsy, many learning disabilities, many physical disabilities ... And generally being elderly, if we're honest) and car dependence leaves you entirely reliant on a chauffeur of some kind for any and every time you want to leave the house.

[-] bitwolf@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 months ago

Thank you for wording it so eloquently.

I learned quickly the car took away my freedom. I needed a car to get a job.

I was suddenly forced to have a job to pay an auto loan. By the time I paid the loan I needed a new car as the first broke down.

Then I needed my job to pay for the 2nd car. If I lived closer to the city with public transport I likely would have never gotten a car in the first place.

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[-] desktop_user 5 points 3 months ago

in what world is a roadside assistance company required? Friends with oversized vehicles can perform a similar function and actually get use out of their stupid truck.

[-] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 18 points 3 months ago

Imagine having friend with oversized vehicles.

[-] desktop_user 4 points 3 months ago

I just wanted to poke fun of how they chose to remove one of the two least needed parts of the pillar instead of parking, gas, or roads.

[-] psx_crab@lemmy.zip 4 points 3 months ago

Idk, i read it as an example, doesn't have to be just that.

[-] Godric@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

Me, 15 miles from town, independently waiting for the bus to arrive (it's a hour long ride, and only comes twice a week):

[-] 5in1k@lemm.ee 4 points 3 months ago

How do I get to and then around Michigan’s Upper Peninsula? I don’t want to go be in cities like at all? What’s the plan for that?

[-] grue@lemmy.world 18 points 3 months ago

You use a car.

Do not mistake cars being appropriate for the 20% of population that's rural for them being appropriate for the 80% of population that's urban, 'cause they're not.

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this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2025
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