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Palestinians starve as Israel continues full ban on humanitarian aid
(www.middleeasteye.net)
Unconscionable. What Hamas did was inexcusable, but Hamas doesn't treat Palestinians any better than they do Jews as a matter of public record. I get that Hamas have exploited just about any effort to help the average Palestinian ever attempted, but that should not be an argument against helping what amounts to more victims of Hamas.
This has nothing to do with "Jews". You differentiate Hama's and Palestinians. Why not the other way. Most Jews aren't even in Israel. Many in Israel don't support it even. I'm all for calling out Israel.
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I get that Hamas have exploited just about any effort to help the average Palestinian ever attempted,
So claims Israel, which has published more lies than truths throughout this genocide.
What Hamas did is very excusable.
the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) has explicitly affirmed the right of Palestinians to resist Israel’s military occupation, including through armed struggle.
Armed struggle != war crimes. One does not justify the other. The October attacks were like 5% achieving military objectives, the rest mindless slaughter, to the point where one can legitimately question whether the military objectives were not completely incidental. Hamas could have bee-lined for as many IDF outposts as they could, they didn't, they shot up Hippie Kibbutzim of all places. (Which is also why Netanjahu and triply so the Kahanites don't care about the hostages: They're by and large lefties).
Same, of course, goes for the IDF and what they're currently doing. If both sides kept to not even self-defence but only military objectives there might actually be peace in sight.
the rest mindless slaughter
Hasbara. Hamas wanted hostages and had no incentive to commit "mindless slaughter" - they're not mindless demons. It's likely the majority of the deaths were from the Hannibal Directive, which is why Israel won't let the UN conduct an investigation.
May be the case, we'll probably see when the dust has settled. OTOH, it's still a war crime to abduct non-combatants so my point stands. And no, reservists aren't combatants.
The hostages aren't even particularly valuable because the Israeli government couldn't give less of a fuck about hippies who do things like protecting the Palestinian olive harvest from settler interference. Nab an in-service right-wing IDF commander off the street and you have something much more valuable and it's a legitimate prisoner of war.
Or, differently put: Don't get your strategic and tactical advise from the Russians of all people.
The dust has very much settled and Israel is very much refusing to release the numbers.
The best illustration is probably this one. Why do you think all the holes are in the car roofs?
Israel doesn't give a fuck about any of its people, whether they're civilians or soldiers. There'd be no difference if the kidnapped were all soldiers.
Also the thing about international law is it has to apply to everyone or it doesn't exist. Israel, by not following internatonal law, has forfeited its protections. Hamas simply followed the same rules of war that Israel does. Israel brought this on themselves.
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To be fair (???) they did need the hostages so they needed to go to the kibbutz anyway, but yeah too much mindless slaughter. I will note though that by casualty numbers alone we're looking at 33% achieving military objectives rather than 5%. Same difference but yeah.
What Hamas did is very excusable.
They killed and kidnapped civilians which isn’t excusable. It would have been excusable to attack the military, not civilians.
I don't like to get into this debate because it's pointless this late in the game, but here goes:
1-If you're going to fight apartheid, you will have to play dirty. Yeah yeah hostages bad, but Palestinian detainees (which are, to be very fucking clear, also hostages) won't be freed by vague platitudes and appeals to the rules of war. They can be freed by hostage exchanges, which need hostages on your side to exchange. Those who make humane revolution impossible make inhumane revolution inevitable.
2-The deaths on October 7th are not solely deliberately Hamas-inflicted. There's a whole host of people who died in the crossfire, either by Hamas or Israeli fire, and many who were killed by Israeli friendly fire. Look up the Hannibal directive.
3-They did attack the Israeli military. 33% of people killed during the attack were military or security forces, and if you look up the towns they attacked on October 7th (which isn't hard to do; there's a list on Wikipedia) you'll see that almost every one has an IDF base. I can't tell you how much because nobody involved cared to run that sort of analysis and Israel had unqualified people do work that was crucial to that sort of analysis (these are the same people who made later disproven mass rape allegations).
Understandable, yes.
Predictable, yes.
Deserved, yes.
Effective, perhaps.
Excusable? No.
Are we really debating whether it’s okay to rape / kidnap / slaughter civilians?
Are we really debating whether it’s okay to rape / kidnap / slaughter civilians?
For the rape* and slaughter part, obviously no. I'm not denying the actual atrocities that Hamas committed during the attack; they did rape and murder civilians and heads need to roll for that.
For the kidnapping part, the question still remains: What else were they supposed to do? Under the assumption that all lives are equally valuable, I see no reason to denounce taking hostages unless there was another effective way of gaining leverage to negotiate with Israel. Otherwise the only options left for the resistance are to give up or fight fire with fire.
Edit: *Apparently the rape part is completely made up.
Hamas did not rape any civilians. This is recently been fully debunked. The Israeli october 7 investigator said there was no evidence of any rape happening.
Any rape at all? I thought they'd only confirmed that no mass rape happened? If I'm misremembering that's great.
Absolute zero. Everything was made up.
Lmfao lemme just go cry for a second. More seriously what the fuck Israel? I mean we all know the answer to that question but still, what the fuck Israel?
Palestinians heartily agree with your “what else are we supposed to do” notion and long since stopped waiting for the world’s moral courage to come to their rescue. When they did that they also said that they no longer cared what anyone thought of the morality of their actions. They don’t need them to be excusable by us and frankly they aren’t. I’m past excusing anyone involved in this conflict.
Do you really tjink the October attacks gained them any “negotiating leverage?”
Do you really tjink the October attacks gained them any “negotiating leverage?”
Given how thousands of detainees have been freed since October 7th, I think the answer is yes. That said I'm pretty sure even they didn't expect the Israeli reprisal to be this big, so this whole thing is in a way one big miscalculation.
More than 33% military without counting all Israelis as IDF reservists which they have proven to be over the last year.
And the kidnapping is done becsuse it is the only way to get their own people free. Israel has been kidnapping Palestinians for decades in far larger quantities. Hamas doing to same thing back should not raise eyebrows.
Israel killed a Palestinian child they kidnapped recently. Did not even make the headlines.
These the same civilians letting genocide happen right next to them? They have just as much blood on their hands.
After seeing how Hamas is torturing and executing Palestinians who protest against them, while Israel is bad they may as well share responsibility for this most recent conflict.
Damn the IDF is executing Palestinians who protest against them?
Oh wait they did that in 2017 in broad daylight.
If only there was any evidence for Hamas doing it. The 4k projector must be on again.
Yes, yes, idk how many cam phones are in Gaza these days but imagine far fewer than before.
Don’t forget this latest conflict started because Hamas raided an Israeli concert for hostages and were always throwing so many missiles at Israel, Israel invented and built the most advanced missile defense system in the world.
Here’s how I see it, Jews shouldn’t have been given Israel after WW2 because it was already settled but it happened. When the Jews won the wars to hold Israel, the Palestinians never accepted defeat and because of it, never made peace. Because they never made peace and have lived for vengeance for decades, they are now doomed. The smart ones left, and will likely be all that is left of Palestine when Israel is done.
Is this just? No, and what really doesn’t help is both people think god is on their side when it seems to me, god isn’t with either of them.
No this conflict started because Israel violated a ceasefire on March 18 and massacared more than 200 Palestinian children in terror bombings.
There was a ceasefire on March 18. There was no ceasefire on October 7.
I consider the current conflict having started in October 2022 because a lot of these ceasefires feel more like a pause in a war not the end of a war. Wars end with leaders dead or lasting agreements.
No that is not how it works.
Hamas and Israel accepted a ceasefre leading to a lasting peace agreement. Then Israel violated it.
The current genocide in Gaza started on 18 March.
My bad, I thought it was temporary not lasting.
That said I stand by my doubts that this will end without total annihilation on either side. Israel can’t forgive Hamas or Hamas Israel without either side literally changing theirs beliefs and values which ain’t happening.
It’s like October made Israel snap and escalate their mindset to, ‘this isn’t over until they are, no more peace only war’ which is where Palestine has been since the 40s.
Hamas refused temporary ceasefires multiple times in 2024. The only reason Hamas agreed to this one was the promise of a lasting ceasefire.
Which also contradicts your second argument, Hamas is actively working to reach a peaceful solution. Israel is refusing every attempt and violating ceasefire agreements.
This is not a both sides issue. Only one side is the problem.
I’m sorry but I’ve heard Jews and Palestinians outside of Israel complain about Hamas specifically for a very long time and I can’t believe they genuinely want peace because they still have hostages, considering Israel said this conflict will end when the hostages are released many times now and offered to make Palestine a sovereign state seven times over in the past for Hamas to reject it.
Israel is angry at Hamas like they never have been before and it seems to me Hamas only wants peace now because they’re losing and are afraid.
Hamas took captives because Israel has 10.000 Palestinian hostages.
Why would Hamas release their captives if Israel does not do the same? Your argument makes no sense. Especially knowing Israel will starve and kill all Palestinians if Hamas has no leverage.
Hamas is very clearly doing everything to achieve peace. Israel is the agressor.
If you’re talking about the base population of Palestine being held being held captive, maybe Hamas should’ve accepted sovereignty and a two state when it was on the table of using humanitarian funds to build a tunnel network and military headquarters under schools and hospitals they can launch missiles at Israel from.
What Israel is doing is cruel and they are going to reap this karma for decades if not centuries to come but because of the nature of war it is more justifiable to completely annihilate and enemy than to leave them standing given such history, because this enemy does not accept peace, wants global jihad, has equal capacity for cruelty, and is just as zealous if not more than they are sometimes.
According to Sun Tzu, if it gets down to this, when you cannot win against this foe through diplomacy, if you do not crush the enemy entirely they will simply regroup and try again. He learned that during a time in China where kingdoms were being established and genocide wasn’t considered a war crime but a punishment for losing a war without accepting defeat. This what Israel is facing. You could say the times are different but in this way, war never changes.
This war reveals the harshest truths about humanity. If you think peace is achievable, it’s not anymore without finishing the war because of how clear it is to Israel and Palestine right now that they would rather die or kill than live with each other in anxiety and fear.
When was this two state offer you speak of? The rest of your comment is also nonsense so address this first.
I said offer to Hamas not random Wikipedia page.
You want to know the history, read.
Quote it if you know it. Clearly you do not.
Not how this works.
this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2025
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