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Sanders hits at Cornel West over criticism of Biden (www.politico.com)

submitted 1 year ago by jimmydoreisalefty@lemmus.org to c/politics@lemmy.world

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Some politicians are so fearful of former President Donald Trump retaking the White House that “they don’t really want to tell the full truth,” West said. “[Biden has] created the best economy that we can get. Is this the best that we can get? You don’t tell that lie to the people just for Biden to win,” West said in a clip played on CNN Sunday.

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[-] protist@mander.xyz 47 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

[Biden has] created the best economy that we can get...You don’t tell that lie to the people just for Biden to win

Straw man arguments like this are what makes it so obvious Cornell West is full of shit. There isn't a single damn person who ever said that, but Cornell West wants you to think it's a majority opinion that he's fighting against.

Back in the real world, we recognize Biden has taken some serious steps in the right direction regarding infrastructure investment, empowering labor, reducing student loan debt, and increasing the portion of taxes paid by the wealthy, among other things. In the real world, we recognize this is as far as he can go with a razor thin Senate majority that depends on the votes of Manchin and Sinema, and we recognize he now has a Republican House to stymy every one of his priorities.

To get progressive policies passed, elect more Democrats to the House and Senate and reelect Joe Biden

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

U just created a straw man, to defeat his straw man. Well done sir.

[-] protist@mander.xyz 4 points 1 year ago

How

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.

[Biden has] created the best economy that we can get...You don’t tell that lie to the people just for Biden to win

You assume that West has created a straw man. He claims that the economy could be better. Whether it’s true or not is up to the reader. In order for it to be a straw man, it would have to be untrue. If it is true, then it is not a straw man.

Let’s assume that his statement is true. That the economy could be better. By treating it as untrue, you create the straw man. You then proceed to refute his assertion by listing Biden’s economic accomplishments, thus tearing down the straw man you created.

Remember, this is all dependent on whether West’s statement is true or not. If the reader thinks it true. Then it is not a straw man.

[-] protist@mander.xyz 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You heavily edited this after I responded, so here's my edit. Cornell West is saying "THEY are saying this is the best economy you can get. I don't think this is the best it can get!" The first statement, literally no one is saying that. It's an argument he invented to argue against. It is not true. The second statement is something literally everyone agrees with. Everyone would like to be doing better financially. Cornell West made up an argument and then knocked it down with something everyone agrees with.

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

To be fair, I don’t think the use of the Straw Man Fallacy is appropriate concerning the economy. Because a good or bad economy is open to interpretation. But you used the term, creating a de facto “straw man.” You then refuted it. I’m not defending West or his statement. And I find it fascinating how you were able to do that. Thus, my comment.

Edit: I am not a logician. This is just how I interpreted it.

[-] EnderWi99in@kbin.social 29 points 1 year ago

Cornell West is a fraud paid for by the right wing. Please don't fall for his bullshit. I'm glad Sanders sees it.

[-] ThwaitesAwaits@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Everyone who disagrees with me is a paid shill, sure sounds like some rightwing cope.

The centrist liberals pathological inability to tolerate even small amounts valid and reasonable criticism is part of why democrats keep losing elections.

[-] utopianfiat@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

Where's your criticism of Cornel and his unpaid taxes and child support?

[-] ThwaitesAwaits@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Strawmanning your opponents is on page 2 of the rightwing playbook.

Can you at least try to counter Dr. West's arguments? If you can't, then just admit it. There's no shame in admitting weakness.

[-] utopianfiat@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

I'm not strawmanning Cornel, he has nearly half a million dollars in unpaid child support. Also plenty of other folks are taking on that aspect of his candidacy, pretending he's not deeply in debt is not taking his candidacy seriously and I don't think anyone who simply ignores the financial trouble he's in should be regarded as serious.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago

I don’t think anyone who simply ignores the financial trouble he’s in should be regarded as serious.

poisoning the well

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago

he has nearly half a million dollars in unpaid child support.

that's a lie

[-] utopianfiat@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Inaccuracy, it's child support and taxes

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/green-party-candidate-cornel-west-owes-half-million/story?id=102293692

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[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cornel-west-owes-more-than-half-a-million-dollars-in-taxes-and-child-support-records/ar-AA1fsNiV

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago

have you considered reading articles before you link them?

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

What part of that article says he doesn't owe half a million dollars?

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago

the amount isn't the dispute. it's the source of the debt.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Wait, you're calling it a lie in huge letters because the person said half a million in child support and not half a million in child support and taxes? That seems needlessly nitpicky and also needlessly aggressive.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago

considering the tax debt is 90% of that amount, i'd say the article itself is being dishonest.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I'm not sure owing tens of thousands in child support is the glowing endorsement of Cornel West you think it is.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago

his kids are all grown, so i think it's actually moot.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Why is it moot that he neglected his children just because they're adults? I'd say that neglect says a lot about his character.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago

he didn't neglect his children.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

He absolutely did. He didn't pay child support. That's neglect.

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[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago

cornel west doesn't need to pay taxes or child support until we dismantle the empire.

[-] K1nsey6@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Racist trope much?

[-] utopianfiat@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/green-party-candidate-cornel-west-owes-half-million/story?id=102293692

Stop trying to woke snipe legitimate criticisms of Dr. West

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago

what is legitimate about this criticism? it's ineffectual mud slinging: anyone who agrees with what cornel west says will not think this is a meaningful criticism at all.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago

cornel west is a respected academic and activist.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago

EnderWi99in is a fraud paid for by the right wing. Please don’t fall for his bullshit.

[-] Franzia 13 points 1 year ago

Voting against the Democrats to get us ranked choice voting can work on a local and state level. It's worked best when communities are mobilized and well-organized and educated about the intention to do so. For example, Democrats have tried to primary AOC multiple times.

But voting against Biden on the federal level is taking a huge risk. The gane theory states that doing so will spoil the vote and givr Trump a better chance at winning. Don't split the vote on the Presidential ticket.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 year ago

Don’t split the vote on the Presidential ticket.

if democrats are worried about splitting the vote, they can vote for the green candidate, since greens obviously won't be deterred by democrat admonishment.

[-] K1nsey6@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Splitting the vote is liberal myth, we wouldnt vote for your Wall Street hand picked candidates if there was no 3rd party candidate running.

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[-] Ekybio@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Cornell West SHOULD know better then doing stunts like this. Because even if the criticism is correct, he is siphoning blue-voters away to a politically useless or damaging position, like the Green-Party.

Which means he weakens the Democrats.

Which in turn means he strengthens the Fascist-GOP.

We can aknowledge the Truth, but always vote and always vote blue. NEVER risk a blue vote for the need to pride yourself on "fighting the corrupt system".

Emotional validation is never an argument for weakening the only thing holding back Fascism in the US. To much is at stake!

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this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2023

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