Maybe we don’t want to do that again… people have some really short memories.
You guys don't have the same suprise factor anymore. Europe will never be a long term power. True Power is moving back east
In your dreams maybe.
Clearly the other commenter is biased but to deny it's looking like China will be The Next Great Superpower(tm) in the 21st century is a bias all its own.
You can do it, Europe. Everyone that cares about "the west" is rooting for you.
"Become a world power"
You know, we've had that experience before, "everywhere else" would pretty much prefer that didn't happen again, thank you very much.
lol yea. I’m an American and fully support other nations boycotting our goods but I’m noticing an overlap with these boycotts and nationalist-imperialist sentiments.
Weirdly enough, from what I've seen, European nationalists tend to be very much against the EU.
That's not entirely true. Europeans tend to dress up racism as national pride and concern for cultural norms (with a few exceptions). So it isn't so much "I'm proud of my country" as "I don't want Arabs and Africans on my street".
A lot of European countries have a long and detailed history that paints a grim picture that most people like to distance ourselves from.
you're missing Euronationalism as category.
THIS; I feel deranged, not hearing anyone else say they've noticed it.
Seriously. Why do people genuinely think this is a good idea? Colonialism and imperialism is bad.
People should have learned after the US's faults, and overreliance of it due to being a world power; but people just want to do it again???
Yes and no. Countries like Russia and China are always going to exist. That means places like the Philippines, Taiwan, Ukraine, and Georgia are always going to need a strong ally if they don't want to be invaded. There are a lot of countries that are going to be very worried now that America has turned heel (Especially Taiwan). Europe has mostly grown out of the need for constant expansion, so having them take on the role of world police wouldn't be the worst thing to happen.
Uh... How exactly is China historically expansionist? Isn't Europe much, much worse by any metric at basically any point of history you choose?
Annexation of Tibet (1950-1951)
Invasion of Paracel Islands (1974)
Southern Mongolia Annexation (1947-1949)
Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands Dispute: China claims the Senkaku Islands (Diaoyu Islands), which are currently controlled by Japan but also claimed by Taiwan.
PROC claims Taiwan as a province, but Taiwan operates as a de facto independent country.
South China Sea (Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia), PROC claims nearly the entire South China Sea under its "Nine-Dash Line", leading to conflicts with Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, and others.
India - China claims Arunachal Pradesh as "South Tibet."
But it's important to point out that "China" isn't a country, rather a region. The country people generally refer to when they say "China" is the PROC. If you go back 1000 years there was no "China" country, there was the Ming Empire in the China region. I understand this perspective bothers people, but consider this, if you need to reduce countries to regions then you're going to be bothered for the rest of your life.
How exactly is China historically expansionist?
Tibet used to be a seperate contry. The Uygurs were a Turkic Khanate to themselves.
Bejing's aim is to homogenise those regions instead of preserving their culture and integrate them further economically to China as a whole, which would have the benefit of improved economic outcomes to both "parties" and maintain arts, culture and liberties of the people there.
Not to mention China making artificial islands around it's coast line to expand it's territory. Boarder clashes with India, territorial disputes with the Philippines, taking over Hong Kong, and ofcourse the constant threatening of taking over Taiwan.
Tibet used to be a seperate contry
Tibet used to be a feudalist dictatorship where 80% of the population were essentially slaves legally bound to the land of landowners.
Bejing's aim is to homogenise those regions instead of preserving their culture
How many official languages are there in your country?
How many official languages are there in your country?
a million billion
Nah, I'm not doing a whataboutism, I'm saying that your white ass doesn't have a remote understanding on what "homogenisation" means. Go to a history museum in China, and in most exhibits they'll have some remarks of the history in different places of modern China, and to the different ethnicities of the country, to the point that it would be categorised as PC-inclusivism in the west. And they don't have a far right party fighting to destroy that :)
You don’t know much about history of China do you?
How does this have anything to do with colonialism?
Cause it worked out so well last time...
Perhaps let someone from global south take the controls (if humans even have more than few decades as species)
Like who? Which bloc is economically as large as the EU and is considered a full democracy. Like we’ve seen what happens when an economically powerful nation with a weak democracy becomes a super power.
I'm not getting out of bed for anything less than spices or gold.
shakes baggie of chiles
They need to poke the planet, then we can all work together to get the fuck off this rock. We've fucked it up enough and there are plenty of planets to mine resources from. Let's all band together for an exit. Then go our separate ways after launch.
It’s nazis all over here, that said, it can’t be worse than United States of Gilead right now
It always has been…
Europe needs to be strong enough to stand on its own at all levels, but I think it's a pretty bad idea for it to become a neo-Imperial power in the style of America.
For all the great things of Democracy, the one thing people forget in their rosy propaganda-tainted view of it (living inside of it, we're constantly bombarde by political messaging about its greatness) is that by definition even the most perfect Democracy only has the duty to represent the will of its citizens, not of people who are not citizens of that Democracy.
So there is no ideological element in Democracy to make it less nasty at exploiting people from other countries than authoritarian regimes.
All this to say that Europe shouldn't get into the business of power projection like the US has done for decades (leaving a long trail of death, suffering and destitution all over the World, especially the Middle East and Latin America).
And I say this as an European and somebody who would stand to gain indirectly from Europe going systematically (it's already done by businesses and some governments in it, just not openly and systematically) into the business of exploiting non-Europeans.
A peacefull when not provoked giant would probably be the best philosphy for a strong Europe, IMHO.
(Edit: for avoidance of doubt I want to state that for me Russia trying to advance westwards by invading Ukraine counts as a provocation)
And I say this as an European and somebody who would stand to gain indirectly from Europe going systematically (it’s already done by businesses and some governments in it, just not openly and systematically) into the business of exploiting non-Europeans.
One great myth of imperial power plays is that the exploitation benefits the imperial power. It often doesn't. The scramble for Africa, for example, was a net economic drain for all the great powers that participated. Every little thing they gained was generally lost as they spent immense amounts of money on being manipulated into useless conflicts by client chiefs. Similar dynamic for England in India during the later periods and associated areas (the British conquest of Myanmar was particularly useless). The only real benefit is economic dominance and the ability to trade (like that was seen in Singapore and Canton). For all it's imperialism and interventionism from the Philippines to Korea to Vietnam to Afghanistan to Iraq, America hasn't seen a gain. Most of the moves by the great powers only benefits a select few of private citizens while the state spends lives and treasure on conquest and subsequent administration for an illegitimate government that becomes corrupt and fragile.
I remember watching Gundam 00 and thinking "man, the US being in a separate power block from Europe sounds crazy!"
please don't try to do this again.
Libs really believing that white people haven't been destroying, robbing, and murdering the global south.
Libs can't comprehend that white people have been destroying, robbing, and murdering one another. The idea that residents of Spain, Greece, and Germany are just going to join hands and do a kumbayah after 16 years of brutal austerity imposed through the ECB is delusional. And this after Brexit, with anti-EU parties gaining traction in France and Italy.
Never even mind how this vision of the EU excludes Turkey, the lynchpin of the whole operation. It would be like saying "We need a United Africa but NO EGYPT!" Like, what are you even fucking doing here, guys?
That's because Türkiye has drifted away from western ideals (democracy, freedom, respect, ...) under Erdogan. There were talks about them joining the EU before that.
Yep. If Europe become a country the central countries will loot everything from peripheral contries
yeah, in the next lifetime, maybe.
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