He was a asshole, but he sound have been free and safe to be an asshole.
Fuck religion
He was a asshole, but he sound have been free and safe to be an asshole.
Fuck religion
If this was a Swedish-born guy, I would jump on the bandwagon of calling him an asshole.
But this guy was an Iraqi. I cannot outright condemn someone who gets so tired of the shit of the majority of their own country that ends up overreacting the moment they find themselves somewhere where they can express themselves freely.
Like, turban knocking in a Western city is (rightly) a hate crime. Turban knocking in Tehran? That's fucking righteous.
Middle eastern Christians, atheists, etc very often end up being "wrong" wherever they find themselves. Wrong in their home countries for being the kuffar Other, wrong in the West as "islamophobes" when they speak out about their othering.
I'm not for the death penalty or killing people generally (very rare exceptions, maybe).
That said, he did it to rile up millions of people with hate speech (for them it is I bet), so like don't do that or you might face consequences.
Free speech isn't about the right to hate speeching. What a douchebag.
Edit: idiot below trying to frame it I think you shouldn't "blasphemy". No lol go ahead and blasphemy all you want, that's free speech IMO.
Being offended is not a justification for killing nor is it hate speech.
Publicly burning symbols of a minority group or a world view is an incitement to violence against that group or people holding that world view.
It has nothing to do with constructive criticism. It is symbolizing a violent act, with the goal to incite more violence.
It is more offensive to kill someone rather than destroying a book. Any group of people that kills over offense is a danger to their society and the world.
Any group of people that kills over offense is a danger to their society and the world.
Which group? How do you define that group? Do you think groups of people should be collectively punished for the actions of individuals of that group?
Also i fail to see why incitement to kill people, which is the ultimate goal of the book burning becomes acceptable, because killing people is worse? Is every lesser crime acceptable? is every hate speech acceptable? Is everything acceptable that falls short of killing someone?
I think it should be obvious that lesser crimes are still crimes and i think it should be obvious, that hate speech against minorities is particular problematic, as it leads to killing people of that minority, which as you point out is the most severe crime.
If a group of people collectively is outraged enough to kill over a certain value system, they should be mocked, ridiculed, and ostracized for that belief. In the united states we have radicals that will kill over abortion. They are mocked and ridiculed. If Muslims get offended, they should be mocked and ridiculed for being soft.
Burning a book is not a "lesser crime." It is speech. If you are offended, how about you put your big boy pants on and act like a man and get over it.
Im against hate speech but it should not be criminalized. Violent speech can be. "This person should be killed" then a overt act made towards violence should be criminal.
But if Muslims get so upset about a book buring and kill, then Muslims are in the wrong and need to realize this is the real world and people don't bow down to babies that cry about offense.
You do know that there is 2 billion Muslims in the world?
So for the act of unknown assailants you think 2 billion people should be "mocked, ridiculed, and ostracized"
By your own example, because some women who got abortions have committed crimes in their life and many women rights advocates get offended by insults towards women seeking abortions, you would want to "mocked, ridiculed, and ostracized" them all too.
There is anti fascists who got so outraged by fascists that they have killed them too. So you must mocked, ridiculed, and ostracized" anti-fascists too.
By your own logic you just justify hating everyone in the world, because in every group of people you will find someone who you find reprehensible, which you then apply to the entire group.
This has nothing to do with free speech. It seems to stem more from some personal things that have nothing to do with any particular group.
Guy was Iraqi. He was burning symbols of what he grew up experiencing as the oppressive majority. Even more, the guy actually experienced sectarian war first hand and fought against ISIS in Iraq. His lived experience counts for something eh.
I don't think we should consider blasphemy as hate speech. Or do you want to be required to follow the rules of all religions because they are all offended by it?
It wasn't the blasphemy that was hate speech, it was the whole rhing riling them up ffs.
This guy?
look i hate netanyahoo and his party but i don't think this iraqi guy deserved it, i belive in freedom of religion and expression
and i think based on my experience (due to coming from sunni family) islam is something more than a religion
His schtick was grifting and being as racist as possible against brown people. This blatant racism is unacceptable in any way. We do not see Muslims mass burning Torah's because they hate Israel either nor should they be doing that.
This is straight up Nazi rhetoric. but because it is against Islam it is accepted in most Western countries. Even part of the more liberal establishment will defend it.
This man will be slightly more missed than the United Healthcare CEO.
I dont know, the Swedish police's slowness to charge Paludan and Momika with hate speech doesn't really justify some random vigilante (or Turkish spy) going and giving him the death penalty. Kinda outside the paradox of tolerance here.
do you have any proof of him being racist?
Is this accepted in most Western countries? It might he legal in the USA but most would think ypu are a weird asshole for burning a holy book.
Hate speech is an exception to the freedom of speech in Sweden. (Same as in EU countries).
You are allowed to practice your religion and express yourself, but hate speech is off the table.
So if he was not jailed or fined for these book burnings, the law has failed and somebody could have taken matters in their own hands.
What exactly more than a religion is it?
Well that checks out.
For some context, when one scratches a bit the back-story of this guy, some interesting facts pop up:
Momika came from Qaraqosh, a town in the Al-Hamdaniya district in the northern Iraqi province of Nineveh[5]. He was an ethnic Assyrian and raised as a Syriac Catholic.[6][7] During the Iraqi civil war, when Christians became persecuted by the Islamic State of Iraq (the precursor of ISIS), Momika joined the Assyrian Patriotic Party and worked as a security guard for the party's headquarters in Mosul. According to Iraqi government sources, Momika fled his hometown in 2012 after the local court found him guilty of causing a wrongful death during a car accident and sentenced him to three years of imprisonment in Badush.[8][9]
After the fall of Mosul to ISIS militants in June 2014, Momika joined the Popular Mobilization Forces (PMF) to fight against ISIS.[10] Specifically, he has appeared in videos in military uniform, as a part of the Christian unit "Spirit of God Jesus Son of Mary Battalion" (Kataib Rouh Allah Issa Ibn Miriam) brandishing firearms and pledging allegiance to the Imam Ali Brigades (to which the Christian unit is a part of), which are a PMF faction and part of the Islamic Movement of Iraq.[11] The Imam Ali Brigades are known to have close connections to Iran and is considered to be an Iranian proxy.[12] The brigades were also accused of committing war crimes and engaging in sectarian violence.[13] It's said that Momika was also affiliated with the Syriac Assembly Movement, a political party that received support from the Government of the Kurdistan Region.[14]
Momika also founded the Syriac Democratic Union and the Falcons of the Syriac Forces in 2014, an armed militia which was affiliated with the Christian militia Babylon Brigade, the armed wing of the Babylon Movement.[12] In 2017, Momika was involved in an internal power struggle with fellow Babylon Movement leader Rayan al-Kildani, which he lost. He fled the country as a result.[15]
In 2017, Momika fled to Germany with a Schengen visa, where he announced his atheism and apostasy from Christianity.
The rest of the article also describes multiple instances of him behaving erratically (e.g. threatening someone with a knife etc).
So before we go to the standard «western right wing troll» stereotyping, we must acknowledge that this is a veteran of the fight against ISIS who experienced persecution of his community during the Iraqi civil war and who probably was suffering from all sorts of trauma.
Does this excuse his behaviour, no. But it does explain it, way better than simplistic caricatures putting him in some «western racist» pigeonhole. He definitely did not deserve to die and he probably had some very legitimate reasons to hate Islam, a religion that he personally experienced in a really fucked up and extreme form in an extremely fucked up and extreme situation. Sadness all around.
Quite a lose-lose situation indeed. People who hate each others guts. I hope they can find the perpetrators soon.
He was being charged for doing this? I had completely missed that. Was Sweden always like this?
Are you saying his killing was justified?
No? He's saying it triggers plenty of Islamophobia. If you actually follow the logic, it sounds more like he's adding more arguments against this kind of killing.
Yeah tbh as a Muslim it’s pretty tiring and offensive to read all of that shit when most of us are just busy living our lives like everyone else. And we’re here on the supposedly progressive and liberal Lemmy…
Wait, are you suggesting that its a bad idea to generalize what a billion plus people living in vastly different places and situations believe? /s
It's also super tiring to read all the ahmadullilah comments under the TRT post on YouTube about this. Kind of offensive too, you know.
I'm with you 100% combatting islamophobia everywhere, but I don't see much in terms of combatting ...islamic-supremacy(?), see I don't even know what to call it. We don't even name it. It's not "Islamism" because that means anything and nothing, it's not "Islamic extremism" because that's like the maniacs. What do we call the low key thing? The one that feeds into the culture war on the muslim side?
killed? someone who's runover by a train is killed, the guy in this article was murdered for someone else's invisible friend.
it's murder.
raised anger and criticism in several Muslim nations
I don't think there are many non-Muslims who were onboard with this stupid shit either, to be fair. Besides the spittle-flecked gammon who were already bigots to begin with, of course.
The only Quran burning I'd support would be if Elon Musk did it as part of his whole white identitarian shtick. I'd send ISIS the airfare myself.
I have mixed thoughts on it really, like you should be allowed to do it but its just pointless and stupid so why the fuck would you?
To me, it's more about the goal he was trying to achieve. He clearly did it to taunt and insult. In that context, I can see how this should be a punishable offense (not death though).
It would be a similar thing if you had learned that the prime minister of Sweden likes to create art at home. Then buying one of his art pieces and burn it in front of his house. Sure, burning art is not a punishable offense, but the goal of intimidating someone with such a symbol could/should be.
Its doing so outside of their house that could be intimidation at that point though. So if you burnt the art in your own home surely it would be fine? Essentially the burning isn't the problem.
A more reasonable response is Muslims call the guy a cunt and move on.
Liberals really hate Nazis.
Unless the Nazi is being Nazi against Muslims instead of Jews. Then they love free speech.
As the saying goes, the only good Nazi
This isn't justification for what happened but people should know he was a part of a brigade in Iraq that killed people.
Oh and also, he's an Israeli supporter who called Palestinians "rats"
As I understand, he was part of a brigade that killed people in the context of a civil war where his brigade was fighting against ISIS
Quite an important footnote.
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