I think your premise - If China becomes democratic - is a really, really big IF.
But hey if they can show us a better way and use their resources to help the world, go nuts. A true 1:1 democracy would be fascinating to see implemented.
I'd be too worried about the CCP backsliding, but if it theoritycally collapsed, and the ROC swooped in to take its place, then yeah I'd be fine with it. Better than Trump's america
Russia is technically a democracy. So no. That would not be enough.
When you refer to becoming democratic, you mean like how it has been until a couple of years ago? Or, are you referring to China suddenly becoming Capitalist instead of Communist?
Or, are you referring to China suddenly becoming Capitalist instead of Communist?
China is already capitalist. By "Democratic" I mean as in Liberal Democracy.
So they can turn fascist again?
Why?
Ah, gotcha. I understand democratic by the direct definition, not an implied meaning. Thanks for explaining it.
I don't care which country is the global super power as long as it adhere to the liberal world order and all that comes with it.
I want to leave in peace, enjoy my human rights and not have to worry about other countries using arms to push their will.
But also: a lot of those points have nothing to do with who the global super power is
Appendix: maybe I was vague but my answer is that as long as the super power follows the rule-based order (as it is supposed to be obviously) it doesn't matter who that super power is. China, Russia, USA, Albania, the Vatican, Congo, w/e.
Understand that might does not make right and follow the same rules as the lesser states and I'm happy.
A lot of people in the global south might say they don't want it to adhere to the "liberal world order"
You're speaking from a position of privilege, and suggesting that you should keep your privilege
I don't care. The question was if I was okay with China as the super power and my answer is that it don't matter as long as it adheres to the liberal world order.
Get off your high horse.
Hummm the “liberal world order” is 100% “countries” using arms to push their will. Countries being “the west”.
And YOU having “human rights” is not really dependent on the “liberal world order”. Most of your rights were won by blood and tears during the late 1800s and early 1900s, through popular movements mostly ideologically aligned first with anarchism then with communism.
Also, the vast majority of the world not having human rights and being colonized and exploited IS your “liberal world order”.
So not really sure how you specifically benefit from western imperialism, unless you are a billionaire ofc. Which I highly doubt.
adhere to the liberal world order
And YOU having “human rights” is not really dependent on the “liberal world order”. Most of your rights were won by blood and tears during the late 1800s and early 1900s, through popular movements mostly ideologically aligned first with anarchism then with communism.
You are correct in that the liberal world order is an effect of previous hardwon freedoms. What is your point? The LIO makes sure that if my government tries to take these freedoms from me it invokes international support. So a malicious government will not only have to deal with domestic pushback, but international as well.
Also, the vast majority of the world not having human rights and being colonized and exploited IS your “liberal world order”.
..which is why these countries are under sanctions for example. Take Venezuela as a case. But yes, the postcolonial debate is ongoing.
But also: a lot of those points have nothing to do with who the global super power is
I mean, Americanization of the world was helped by the fact that US became a global superpower.
Depends on whether or not China shifts demographically as well. They’re currently too xenophobic and monocultural. Look at most western developed country and you’ll see quite a bit of diversity. I don’t think you’ll ever have a global superpower that is so set on race or where you were born.
China is definitely not immigration friendly.
If China becomes democratic it is no longer China anywhere as we know it. The agenda is still, AFAIK, that the totalitarian regime is necessary for another undisclosed amount of time with the end goal to transition into full communism.
The problem is of course that the party elite quite enjoy this position they are in and are in no hurry for any societal transitions in any direction whatsoever.
So, in my mind, your question is at best some imaginary world building for a fictional scenario that has no connection with reality.
I think the point was to have it as a mental exercise. Personally I'd be fine with it. My main issue with China is the entire genocidal surveillance ethnostate with little to no civil liberties and full restricted speech. If it opened up to allow criticism of the government, protests, protection of LGBTQ folks and legal marriage, I'd be more on board.
But yes, that's not the China we see today and likely never going to see in our lifetimes.
There should never be a global super power. Ever.
While I’d support china going democratic 100% my experience of working and traveling in china makes me pretty certain it’s not happening in my lifetime. Obedience has been brutally beaten into Chinese citizens for so long it would take a long time to change that
I wouldn't totally subscribe to that, having worked with Chinese allowed to travel. There's acceptance to the rules active incountry, but very much subversive energy and sarcasm/cynicism abroad, and willingness to break the rules. If one manages to get them to open up a bit. I've worked with tech folks only, though.
No. Even if they dramatically changed on all fronts, became a democracy, promoted LGBT+ and racial civil rights, broke up their concentration camps, stopped surveiling citizens, gave people true elections, and stopped cracking down on political opponents, their nation is facing an extremely serious gender and population imbalance, one that will have drastic impacts on their society and stability in the next 30 years. A large portion of their workforce is going to retire and cannot be sustained by the smaller population that are kids and teens now. There's also a severe gender imbalance from the One Child Policy favoring boys over girls. There's no getting off that train, and shit like incel culture and a ton of retirees causes bad political instability. Or wars, to distract from problems at home, like what Russia is doing.
It's going to be a massive problem since they don't have much in the way of immigration, and even if they got a ton of people pregnant now, they are still facing down a 10+ year deficit of people.
Hell, the only reason why we aren't in the same boat is that we didn't implement boneheaded policies like that, and immigration helps offset our birthrate being below the replacement rate of people. We depend on immigrants as much as they depend on us.
When you say "Chinese" becomes lingua franca, do you mean Mandarin? Cantonese? Yue? Hakka? Other? If Mandarin, do you mean Jilu? Jiaolio? Other?
I don't think "Chinese" or any sinitic language ever becomes the global language. Translation is becoming so simple, I would expect any new global initiative can work in 3-4 languages simultaneously.
UN headquarters relocating - I think it would be more likely the UN collapses and is replaced by something else with China leading.
The Chinese movie industry is already huge, we just don't see much of it in the US.
Lots of Chinese people aren't into fengshui. That's kind of a bizarre stereotype for you to pick out of everything mentioned.
The aerospace industry in China has a ways to go before they can be classified in the same tier as Airbus. They are getting better, but still heavily rely on borrowing designs instead of creating their own.
Baidu, HarmonyOS, a computer OS - fine by me to add more options.
What I actually hope is the idea of a single global superpower dies completely. It's not even the current reality for the US; it's just propaganda.
When you say “Chinese” becomes lingua franca, do you mean Mandarin? Cantonese? Yue? Hakka? Other? If Mandarin, do you mean Jilu? Jiaolio? Other?
Mandarin Chinese. (I had this in mind when I was typing it, but then forgot to type it 😅)
Lots of Chinese people aren’t into fengshui. That’s kind of a bizarre stereotype for you to pick out of everything mentioned.
Idk, my parents are very into it, so I just assumed its a standard thing. The friends that my mom talk to seems to discuss superstitions a lot. My parents wouldn't buy a house with the number 4 on the street address.
(For Context: My family and I were born in PRC)
I meant more like "Chinese Superstition" rather than just "fengshui", but the "fengshui" term was more widespread so I just used that instead.
What I actually hope is the idea of a single global superpower dies completely. It’s not even the current reality for the US; it’s just propaganda.
Yea I don't like superpowers either, but this is more like a "If you had to pick" type of question.
This reads more like "do you care if Chinese culture becomes popular and dominant" and I am not sure. Except for the language (which I don't think I could learn before I die) I don't care, the music is good, movies, dance. And China and India are both so populous it would make logical sense to me that one might be the trend-setting culture.
But politically I think it more likely that the US finds its way back to democracy, than China finding its way there.
The only issue I see with your plan is keeping the Chinese writing system. Alphabets are superior, even if you write Chinese with them.
Otherwise as long as my ideas about how the world should function get put into practice, I don't care who does it. By chance of history US was the one who brought quite a few good ideas into the world, mostly in the second half of the 20th century. But there's nothing fundamentally American about having good ideas.
No because we can and ought to have a world without global superpowers and states overall.
In an alternate universe where Britain didn't went and colonise countries, US is so weak they got wrecked and conquered by Japan in ww2, and China become a democratic country at the end of ww2, then yeah i guess i wouldn't mind because it didn't matter.
In current universe? None of that will happen, even if a political party suddenly campaign against CCP and CCP suddenly got voted out next election. English doesn't became a lingua franca overnight.
Democracy without the rest of Enlightenment Liberalism is just another kind of of tyranny.
E: typo
South Korea President Yoon has joined the chat
Former you mean. Well he might technically be president, I don't follow close enough to know the exact status, but he is politically dead in the country and there is just process left to formalize it.
Which is how it should work. People abusing power is a given. If it isn't happening where you live than either you are ignorant of the truth (perhaps because you overall support what the abuser is doing and so choose to ignore small signs); or you are afraid of what would happen if you talked about abuse.
I'd rather have multipolarity.
China will never be democratic. English is there because it's easy. There is no default search engine (but there would be one if "democratic" China controlled everything...), same for your Linux crap, who would install this without being forced when there are already a thousand better alternatives.
Sounds boring, you described what would happen if a dictatorship ruled the world (and no whataboutism with the USA, I'm also immune to what they are doing).
China will never be democratic.
"Never" is a long time
I'm sure people back then thought we'd never get rid of monarchies... but then most monarchies are gone
I think the main thing which I would have problems with would be the collectivism and confucionism which I really can't stand. I don't think it's necessary to replace English, it's not American anyway. The rest sounds ok to me, as long as they don't kill my normal Linux.
Considering they use Uyghur slave labour for Xinjiang cotton, the answer is a no from me.
I wouldn't be okay with any country being global super power except maybe Albania.
To be fair, Chinese is only slightly harder to learn than English
That depends on where you are coming from. English has enough German and Latin roots that most of Europe has a head start when learning English. (linguists will define roots different from what I'm using and say English doesn't have Latin roots, but there is still significant influence)
If you are coming from an African language though it probably won't make much difference. Though in Africa there is a good chance your nation was controlled by Europe over the years and so you might know enough of some European language to make English easier.
Not really, the same issues that plague the world right now will still exist, just stemming from a different entity
I mean having to learn Chinese would be pain in the ass but probably good for me and my country's main character syndrome is annoying as hell so sure
That depends on how they act. China right now is on a path where I'd oppose them replacing the US. However the EU has the ability to replace the US as the global superpower - they don't because despite some significant differences overall the US and EU get along well and so they don't see any point. By cooperating the EU gains the things they want from being a global superpower without the disadvantages. Part of that cooperation is the EU is in NATO (mostly?) and so they are paying some of the military costs of the US being a global super power.
The US isn't perfect by any means, but we have done much better in many ways vs previous global superpowers. Right now I'd predict China would be worse so I oppose it. However who knows how things will change in the future.
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