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submitted 3 days ago by Alsephina@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml

The conversations are amazing

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[-] MisterFrog@lemmy.world 24 points 1 day ago

Despite the unhappy circumstances, it's kinda nice Chinese and Americans interacting on social media.

The fact this isn't typically possible because of bans in China is not so nice. Neither is the fact the US is going down the same road instead of proper privacy laws.

But still, kinda nice

[-] meowMix2525@lemm.ee 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I mean the US is so scared shitless of socialist propaganda, or rather the political upheaval and loss of global dominance by capital that it would lead to, that it has literally bombed and invaded entire countries of civilians over it. Unless a country has any ability to fight back; in which case we do anything in our power to undermine that country's political process by devastating it economically, conducting covert CIA operations, and funding fundamentalist religious groups.

I think China learned a lesson at some point and, in all fairness, it probably wouldn't have been allowed to develop to this point if it was more welcoming of exchange with western media. (Well, that, and the fact they've funded their socialist project by providing cheap goods for western capitalists to increase their profit margins with)

If we don't even trust China to define China's truths, why should we trust America to do so? You've seen how much misinformation has damaged our political process. If the Chinese people are happy with their government, and data says over 90% of them are, who are we to say what is right for their country? If in fact they don't trust their government, it should be left up to them to decide what to do with it and when. Just as we wouldn't like it very much if China dictated to us what is right and wrong, even if it were to lift millions out of poverty like it did for the Chinese people.

America manipulates media too, arguably to a much greater extent. However, it's more of a firehose method. Western media is fully allowed to lie, sensationalize, and manipulate truths with no other recourse than an "invisible hand" of a "free market" that is fully willing to gobble up misinformation and spit it back out between each other. For every keyword that is censored on its way from America to China, there's a billion dollars waiting for any media outlet willing to propagate the capitalist narrative. Non- or anti-capitalist media does not have similar funding, for the very fact that those who are so invested in capitalism are not going to throw their money at outlets which undermine their profits. It's also not like America doesn't straight up censor things when it can do so covertly. At least China's censorship is out in the open.

This is a whataboutism, to be sure, but look at the whole picture. It's all the more reason for China to weed out information from the West that is regularly and systemically manipulated, in the ways I've just described, to undermine them.

It's exactly the same situation as Israel carpet bombing all of Palestine and continuing to receive billions of dollars in support, only for the resistance fighters to be called terrorists, caged, and starved when they fire back a few rockets. It's simply not comparable and the hypocrisy is stark.

There's also the small matter of their language, the friction of which was highlighted when western journalists were quick to cry censorship because nothing came up when they searched "xi jinping" and "tianenmen" on red note. Of course, this was because it's spelled 習近平 and 天安门 in China. This language barrier makes Chinese media very inaccessible to westerners, and vice versa, which isn't really China's problem as the Chinese language already gives them access to all 1.4 billion people they are responsible for. Like red note has been accessible all this time, it's only now becoming popular in the West as a fuck you to the government for banning tik tok.

(Sorry this got to be so long, there's a lot of background to cover here that tends to be obscure to the average American. I'm only just able to articulate it myself as I don't tend to write things I can't back up with evidence or reasoning. Happy to expand on anything I've glossed over for the sake of brevity.)

[-] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 1 day ago

The social score thing isn’t really propaganda as much as it is idiots believing whatever they read. It started from what was essentially thinly veiled racism, and became “true” because people kept hearing it.

[-] sudo@programming.dev 14 points 1 day ago

There were several "social credit systems" that were set up in various provinces. These were mainly attempts to aggregate public records from different departments into one searchable database. It mostly affected business owners since they have the largest public record footprint. The idea was you could look up who owns what business and how many code violations those businesses had.

This triculates into the american rumor mill and comes out as the "social credit score" meme which is fantasitcal projection from our own opaque credit system.

[-] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 day ago

Great example of how "ironic" racism is still racism. It invites actual racists to join and fit in.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 day ago

That's generally how propaganda works, though.

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[-] Kiwiprole@lemmy.ml 31 points 1 day ago

The unexpected propaganda win for the PRC too lol. Anyone who might have been doubting the benefits of the dictatorship of the proletariat will now have first hand evidence that life is absolutely not better in capitalism

[-] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 1 day ago

This is exactly what governments around the world are afraid of. Every government wants us to blindly accept that every citizen of the nation is profoundly evil and must be obedient to its government.

Russia wants its citizens to believe every single lie about itself and other nations. That everyone in Ukraine is a bloodthirsty Nazi, and Russia is liberating Crimea.

America wants its citizens to believe every single lie about itself and other nations. Every brown person is a terrorist waiting for its Manchurian candidate call sign to do a second 9/11, and that the economy is the greatest in the world.

No nation tells the entire truth, from lying from omission via national security, to straight up war time propaganda, to funding and owning news networks. From Radio Free Europe to Sputnik, a government will lie to your face and tell you its an unabridged raw truth.

The only way we could actually learn the "truth" (if there is such a one when anyone could be as brainwashed as their government wants them to be) is by directly talking to the citizens of each nation. The internet is a great equalizer, the only limit is language and translation. That's why governments censor the internet, or even shut it down when it gets too much for a government to manage.

We all have more in common with the random citizens of China, Russia, Germany, Japan, South Korea, America, Mexico, Canada, Uganda, South Africa, Egypt, Palestine, Israel, Ukraine, Brazil... We have more in common with being human and being subjugated and redistricted in doing what makes us happy and free.

And the government and rich of each of those nations and beyond have more in common each other than to the citizens they try to control like dogs. They all disagree on why they do it, but the end result is the same. Status quo, monopoly on violence kept in place with whoever is at the top. The set dressing and costumes change, but the stage play goes on.

You and I have more in common than with the president or prime minister or dictator we are under. The only thing we share with the top 1% and our governments is the lanauge we share and the citizenship. I have friends around the world, and I have more in common with random geeks in Japan and China, than the leadership of my nation.

The governments want you to think that you have nothing to share and love with another human being outside the lines drawn in the sand by people out of touch with the people inside those lines.

[-] wurzelgummidge@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

But nowhere else on the planet invests as much money and effort into it as the US. $325 million a year on anti China propaganda alone:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/1157/text

You never saw that mentioned in the media did you? There is a reason for that:

It is one of the most important aspects of our media system, and yet hardly known to the public: most of the international news coverage in Western media is provided by only three global news agencies based in New York, London and Paris.

The key role played by these agencies means Western media often report on the same topics, even using the same wording. In addition, governments, military and intelligence services use these global news agencies as multipliers to spread their messages around the world.

https://swprs.org/the-propaganda-multiplier/

[-] Krauerking@lemy.lol 33 points 2 days ago

I just want to point out that the attempt to compare medical costs in a direct comparison in US dollars isn't exactly easy as it does ignore purchasing power and base wages.

The point would probably be better made with hours of labor at a base pay to pay off treatment which I do think American healthcare would probably still lose quite handedly.

[-] dutchkimble@lemy.lol 9 points 1 day ago

They're obviously saying all of this to up their social credit!

[-] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

I'm also learning it's not real dude we've been duped

[-] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 22 points 1 day ago

Some of this stuff is dated. Chinese healthcare used to be less available and more expensive until the government put efforts in changing that fact. China's a nation that seems to believe that they can use their government to make things better.

[-] wurzelgummidge@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago

China’s a nation that seems to believe that they can use their government to make things better.

Isn't that what you pay taxes for?

[-] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 day ago

I pay taxes to stay out of jail

[-] Clbull@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago

It's funny that Xiaohongshu is popping off right on the cusp of a TikTok ban. They're not even flocking to established US alternatives.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 31 points 1 day ago

The fact that Xiaohongshu is Chinese is the point, it's a protest against banning Chinese Social Media without holding US-based Social Media to the same standard.

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[-] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 day ago

I'm getting tired of all this propaganda... I honestly may leave Lemmy if this keeps up.

"Everything" we've heard about China is a lie? Are you people for fucking real?

[-] Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 64 points 2 days ago
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[-] Nalivai@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Daamn, it's so nice that nobody invented lying on Chinese internet yet, otherwise shit would be so embarrassing

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago

Damn, it’s so nice that nobody invented sarcastic vagueposting yet.

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this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2025
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