You need a VPN for everything when it comes to pirating. (kbin.melroy.org)

submitted 1 day ago by Nyxicas@kbin.melroy.org to c/piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com

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Let's not turn this into what the Reddit subreddit of Piracy has turned into and that's an endless sea of questions that are all the same - "Do I need a VPN?".

And the loud and vocal answer to such a question is - yes. Yes you do need a VPN for pirating. Nobody gets a VPN for casual use and I'm under the impression that VPN services know a lot of people are going to be going to them for pirating and not just accessing content out of their country. And it's for that reason, is why I'm skeptical on entrusting my activity with the bigger VPN names available.

I use ProtonVPN myself, by the way.

Pirating under your raw IP address, only will set you up to get pegged by your ISP whether it's in a short time or a long time. I've only ever gotten one single ISP letter in my entire 26 years of pirating and it was simply because I downloaded without a VPN. Well I was also downloading off of someone else's network to take the fall, but I was confronted about it either way.

And I've gotten away with so much pirating because of my careful cautiousness when it comes to pirating. That and this applies to the United States, but the statue of limitations is 3 years when it comes to copyright infringement. So, good fucking luck to any ISP or so that wishes to try and nail me for something I downloaded 10 years ago, but I digress.

But a large part of me avoiding so much does contribute to having a VPN. So, yes, VPN is required. Please don't ask anybody in the pirating community 100 questions that are all just ways to ask whether or not you need a VPN. You do.

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[-] mub@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 hour ago

My torrenting level is very casual and (sry) I only leech. Also my ISP is a small one in the UK. Our Government seems to only force the big ISP to tattle on its users and block pirating sites. At least that's how it has been for the last 10 years.

I have qbittorrent and Plex on my server. It is tempting to setup a VPN just for qbittorrent just to be sure.

[-] CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml 1 points 28 minutes ago

That's what I do. I'm in a place that really doesn't give a shit about Piracy (the worst they'll do is send a letter, one of my friends got one and called up his ISP to complain about it and they told him to stop seeding so much lol) but I still run a VPN 24/7 anyway just to be safe. It costs peanuts and doesn't slow down the internet hugely so I figure why not.

[-] BermudaHighball@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 5 hours ago

You don't need a VPN if you use I2P!

[-] Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 6 hours ago

Summation of arguments below: if you know a lot, then you know if you know if you need a VPN or not.

If you don't know if you need one, just get one.

[-] GhiLA@sh.itjust.works 3 points 3 hours ago

I'm just lazy.

I can't be bothered to wonder whether or not your specific flavor of piracy is tracking me or not, and I don't really care to know.

VPN and just don't worry about it.

If I hear my provider turned to shit, I move providers. Mullvad rn.

[-] CmdrShepard42@lemm.ee 1 points 1 hour ago

Mullvad isn't good for torrenting anymore since they don't have port forwarding but that probably doesn't apply if you're using Usenet, streaming, or some other form.

[-] GhiLA@sh.itjust.works 1 points 47 minutes ago* (last edited 47 minutes ago)

...I never used port forwarding with them and it just kinda works?

I pirate almost exclusively over Qbittorrent.

there's just gotta be a leak somewhere, that ain't normal...

If Mullvad is off, and I download a Pixar film, I will get a letter. I have.

If it isn't, I won't. I don't.

shrug port forward or no port forward, the data still flows and my ISP can't see it.

[-] CmdrShepard42@lemm.ee 1 points 22 minutes ago

Without it, you won't be able to connect to other peers unless they have port forwarding active. If enough people torrent without port forwarding, the whole system breaks down.

[-] prole 1 points 1 hour ago

Mine works just fine with torrenting...

[-] Nyxicas@kbin.melroy.org 1 points 4 hours ago

I think this comment should be pinned honestly.

[-] Irelephant@lemm.ee 1 points 5 hours ago

I don't need one, and you definetly dont need it for everything, maybe torrenting at the very minimum.

[-] gazter@aussie.zone 11 points 10 hours ago

I think you are giving an overly simplistic answer, to the point of being misleading.

Stating that you need a VPN for pirating is blatantly false. It's perfectly possible to pirate without one. You can assume that people are asking if they should have one, but it is helpful to draw the distinction- including the why you believe they should use one. What does a VPN do, how is it helpful, what could happen if they don't, etc.

Teach people, don't just give them blind rules.

[-] RootBeerGuy@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 6 hours ago

Yep. I am not a strong media consumer. For my purposes, something that I think is called scene release page with links to new episodes or movies that just came out posted on one click hoster pages, as well as streaming sites where I find ways to download the video instead of just streaming, is enough. For neither I use a VPN and probably never will.

[-] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 16 points 13 hours ago

Ahh, American ey?

[-] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 20 points 15 hours ago

Whether you really need a VPN depends on where you live. When in doubt, use one

[-] john89@lemmy.ca 10 points 16 hours ago

Buy an ad.

[-] Enzy@lemm.ee 16 points 18 hours ago

I don't use one. Never had.

[-] Gorusnor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 19 hours ago

Rants about not going to a big vpn because of privacy concerns, yet brings up one of the largest vpns still that their uses. Btw a vpn is only subjective to what you are doing, torrenting or any p2p activity you will need a vpn. Direct downIoads from datanodes, 1cloudfile or streaming from a site aka broflix, primeflix you dont need a vpn. Ive gone years without getting any notice from my isp with this information. Of course the websites will change over time but the info still stands true to this day.

[-] RootBeerGuy@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 6 hours ago

I am not sure there is an argument of big vs small vpns. Small vpns certainly do not have the resource to fight media companies.

[-] moreeni@lemm.ee 43 points 1 day ago

Not everyone lives in the so-called first world. Here the ISPs don't care about pirating.

[-] koncertejo@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 hours ago

Hell, in Canada they don't care at all either.

[-] ComradeMiao@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 hours ago

OP said not everyone lives in the first world...

[-] krolden@lemmy.ml 14 points 21 hours ago

Is this a vpn sales pitch

[-] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 13 points 21 hours ago

VPNs are not required. Instead of egressing on your ISPs network, you're egressing on someone else's network. It's kinda like paying for a second ISP so you can egress your ISP to go encrypted to your other ISP. What does it accomplish other than putting you in another law jurisdiction?

Even purevpn who said "no logs" handed over data.

"In 2017, PureVPN, which advertised a no-logs policy, supplied connection logs to the FBI during a cyberstalking investigation. These logs enabled the identification of a suspect by linking activities to originating IP addresses. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PureVPN

"In 2016, IPVanish, another provider asserting a no-logs policy, furnished user data to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security during a child abuse investigation. The information shared included the user's real IP address and connection timestamps. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPVanish

You pay them, and for what? To just take their word for it? Sorry but it's impossible to run a reliable network without some level of logging.

Not to mention that there have been documented instances Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), have been misused, leading to concerns about domestic surveillance.

This section allows the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) to collect communications from non-U.S. citizens located outside the United States, even when those communications are routed through U.S.-based companies, such as cloud providers, internet service providers (ISPs), and tech companies.

At that point do you think you'll get some form of compensation from the VPN provider?

[-] Nollij@sopuli.xyz 3 points 4 hours ago

To an extent, you are correct. You have to have a certain amount of trust in your VPN provider. Kape, which owns most of the big names, is not trustworthy. You absolutely shouldn't use them.

Others have been audited or otherwise had their log-free claims validated. Names like Mullvad and Proton. You are correct that logs are important for reliability, but these can be very limited in scope. If the logs are useless at an individual level, or might meet both requirements. Others might only log on certain servers, or in dev/troubleshooting scenarios. You don't necessarily need logs in all production scenarios. This is particularly true if you can still access real-time data.

But even if the VPN provider isn't trustworthy, there is something to be said about the trust being relative. AT&T, Verizon, and Comcast have all shown that they are completely untrustworthy. I would even trust Nord over any of them, and I do not trust Nord.

[-] Nyxicas@kbin.melroy.org 1 points 4 hours ago

VPNs are not required. Instead of egressing on your ISPs network, you're egressing on someone else's network. It's kinda like paying for a second ISP so you can egress your ISP to go encrypted to your other ISP. What does it accomplish other than putting you in another law jurisdiction?

I...what?

How am I paying for another person's ISP when I'm mooching off of their network to pirate from?

Okay, so the two examples you've provided about those VPN services, have nothing to do at all about piracy. One is about cyberstalking and the other was about a child abuse investigation. Those are arguably more serious than piracy in comparison.

At that point do you think you'll get some form of compensation from the VPN provider?

The fuck are you on?

[-] CmdrShepard42@lemm.ee 2 points 1 hour ago

How am I paying for another person's ISP when I'm mooching off of their network to pirate from?

I'm not defending their argument but they're saying that a VPN is like paying for a second ISP to hide traffic from the first not that you're paying for someone else's ISP like the seeder of a torrent.

[-] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 15 hours ago

I work for a VPN company. There may be many shitty VPN companies that do keep logs, but not all of them.

You just need to pick the right ones, ideally audited ones.

Also, VPNs are absolutely required in some countries if you're using public torrents. Even if they're not required in your country right now, you're still advertising that you're doing illegal stuff if you don't use one.

[-] ladfrombrad@lemdro.id 3 points 13 hours ago

lol, likes porn eh?

https://iknowwhatyoudownload.com/en/peer/

I love these labels and torrenting porn is so noobie it's not even funny, and don't most use Bing for that?

[-] Th4tGuyII@fedia.io 2 points 1 hour ago

Is that for @PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de's IP?

Cause if they're working for a VPN company and recomennding you use a VPN, surely they must be using a VPN themselves

[-] CmdrShepard42@lemm.ee 2 points 1 hour ago

How is this guy seeing users IP addresses?

[-] Th4tGuyII@fedia.io 2 points 1 hour ago

That's part of why I asked, cause I'm sceptical they can see it in the first place, never mind that's its probably not Potato's actual IP given how much they're advocating VPN use

[-] ladfrombrad@lemdro.id 1 points 9 minutes ago

It's nothing like that :D

Once you're in a pool like I was above, you get websites that collate this data. But the thing is is that "IP pool" was also shared with someone else hence it showing me "liking porn", even though I never touched these mofo's

https://files.catbox.moe/u2odnu.png

[-] Sibbo@sopuli.xyz 63 points 1 day ago

Do I need a VPN to read this post?

[-] Imprint9816@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I think there is a big misconception that the main use of a VPN is piracy when that is really only true when in a community of pirates. There are many legit uses for one as well.

For example, while VPNs are generally not a great tool for anonymity they can be a useful tool for privacy. One of the side effects of not trusting your ISP (or better put trusting your VPN over your ISP) with your data is it also makes it easier to torrent.

Its this relationship of trust that makes choosing a respected VPN (such as Mullvad, IVPN, or Proton) important over just choosing the cheapest provider with port forwarding.

[-] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Yeah I don’t really understand this post. I use a VPN pretty much 24/7 coupled with little snitch. I like controlling what information of mine is going out and who gets to come in.

[-] CaptainBasculin@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 day ago

Not every country has firms that send warning letters/lawsuits for torrenting. Research whether your country does that before getting a VPN. In my country, I never had to get one.

[-] thefluffiest@feddit.nl 31 points 1 day ago

Starting an AI company will also allow you to infringe copyrights on a massive scale without punishment

[-] drkt@scribe.disroot.org 23 points 1 day ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

I don't have to worry about any of this because I live in Denmark! It is not possible for me to pirate stuff because it implies that I did not pay, which I did as there is a special piracy tax!

We call it 'blankmedieafgiften'.

~~we call it 'kulturarvsafgiften' and apparently you can't google it which I'm not gonna imply any conspiracies about but yknow~~

[-] Chewy7324@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 21 hours ago

I don't know about your piracy tax specifically, but there's also a tax on any storage media, printers etc. in Germany.

The "Urheberrechtsabgabe" (copyright duty) is not about paying for pirate copies, but it's a compensation for the loss due to the right to a private copy. A private copy is e.g. a copy of a CD I own in case the original gets destroyed. It's explicitly not allowed to share them.

Sadly the right to a private copy gets canceled as soon as it's necessary to break a "working" copy protection. CD copy protection has been broken for decades, but it still counts as a "working" copy protection. Thus a private copy is practically not possible legally, but we still pay this tax on any storage media... I really hate the copyright lobby.

[-] drkt@scribe.disroot.org 4 points 16 hours ago

is not about paying for pirate copies, but it’s a compensation for the loss due to the right to a private copy.

Sounds an awful lot like a piracy tax... We pay this tax on any device which can store bits, it's not just some storage mediums. If you buy a phone, you're paying this tax to a """non-profit""" org called CopyDan whose sole job is to make sure a few select fat cat copyright holders get paid. If I don't break their copyright, I still have to pay as if I did. Therefore, it's a piracy tax.

[-] Chewy7324@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 4 hours ago

Sounds an awful lot like a piracy tax...

It's pretty similar. The difference is that it only exists for legal private copies, not for generally illegal piracy.

We pay this tax on any device which can store bits, it's not just some storage mediums.

That's also the case in Germany (and likely most of Europe). The actual rate depends on the product category.

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[-] pipes@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 day ago

Not everyone is US based, but ofc it's an understandable assumption since it's a very populous and well Internet-connected country (plus we're discussing in English).

To save one's behind when torrenting (pirating is a bit generic), a VPN is a great tool, but falling into the privacy/security and legal nightmare of a cheap service installing malware (or getting their proprietary app hacked) and/or stealing residential connections is a big risk (like with those services where a huge budget is spent on predatory marketing on youtube); paradoxically having that unrestricted VPN app installed might mean that a lot more people are torrenting with your residential connection. This point is not a deal breaker, just a "beware", do your homework and isolate that connection within your OS or even better within your network.

Other counterpoint: within a country where they haven't started to really crack down on it, you are protected by the impossibility of fining / suing / arresting millions of people at once. More people sign up for VPNs and torrent from outside the country, the more their connationals will also need protection.

Sorry for the wall of text..