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"I think it's time to tell the military-industrial complex they cannot get everything they want," said Sen. Bernie Sanders. "It's time to pay attention to the needs of working families."

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[-] ajoebyanyothername@lemmy.world 19 points 3 days ago

Is ripping more or less severe than slamming someone?

[-] nepenthes@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

More. Rips bleed, slams bruise.

[-] JiveTurkey@lemmy.world 80 points 4 days ago

Our military budget is beyond ridiculous and one of the biggest waste of money are our own contractors. We've watched them charge the govt $1500 for a $10 bearing and the list of contractors has continued to shrink with a long list of acquisitions that have killed all competition. I can't imagine what this country could be if we spend half of that budget on education and modern infrastructure.

[-] whostosay@lemmy.world 22 points 4 days ago

People are not even willing to learn how much they're being fucked. They wouldn't do much with the resources.

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[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 19 points 3 days ago

“I think it’s time to tell the military-industrial complex they cannot get everything they want"

is he talking about active servicepeople because we've been there since forever

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago

MIC is the private companies that supply/support the military and profit from it. Everything from fuel to uniforms to electrical wiring in the bases.

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

so, like also the schools that are on base too? because the janitor at the school on the base near me fell through their ancient roof a few weeks ago. like, I'm not so sure they've been getting everything they want

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago

Nobody said the MIC's product was good quality or well maintained. In fact the more they can charge for the less they can do means more profit. And if working class people die because of it then oh well.

[-] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 6 points 3 days ago

It’s a school. That’s why.

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[-] ysjet@lemmy.world 16 points 3 days ago

Of course not, active servicepeople are just another currency to the military-industrial complex.

[-] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 37 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Billions for Ukraine? No debate, full send. Billions for Israel? No debate, full send. Billions for healthcare? Whoa whoa whoa, gotta balance that budget!

Edit: if you prefer, forget I said healthcare and substitute in anything else that would help the working class.

[-] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Extra spending on health care is not actually required (even though america could afford it). Americans spent more per capita on health care than anyone else already. American health spending is extremely inefficient, with parasites like for-profit insurance (whose profits and much of their revenue are literally just inefficiency in the system) embedded at every layer. The problem is that allowing it to get to this state means many of these bad actors will gladly spend hundreds of millions on politicians and ads to defend the billions they make, and American voters are easily confused.

If you call profits a bad thing too many times you get called a communist or whatever even though in this case it's objectively true. The shooting of that parasite CEO should have brought this into focus - that worthless person profited directly from making people's health care expenditures less efficient (and also from the corresponding human suffering in case anyone cares).

[-] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 days ago

I agree with all of that. Almost wish I hadn't used healthcare as an example since there's plenty of other programs that suffer from low funding.

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[-] Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works 12 points 4 days ago

Every single time someone brings up anything about cost and the government, ask them how much money the DoD loses every year. Every single time.

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

see the dod brings in money because of pineapples and crack

the US already allocates $1.5 trillion for direct healthcare spending

[-] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 days ago

If you don't like healthcare as an example, choose anything else that helps the working class. I don't just mean adding new money either, but how eager they are to make cuts to existing programs.

[-] HawlSera@lemm.ee 21 points 4 days ago

Defund the police and military.

[-] stoicmaverick@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I think "Defund" is a bit drastic given the current state of the world, but it is possible that we don't need to maintain 11 aircraft carriers, in the same way that every small town Pennsylvania Police department doesn't need their very own armored personnel carrier. Moderation in all things.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago

The problem is we maintain half of them forward deployed in roughly 3 areas at any one time.

But yeah that's why our military is so expensive. If it wasn't constantly forward deployed it would be much cheaper.

[-] joyjoy@lemm.ee 3 points 3 days ago

We really should be working with our allies to get their own military in the area. Mainly in Europe. If I'm being realistic, we probably will never leave Asia.

[-] ghen@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Defund is the only slogan that has had actual sticking power though. To have nuance on this topic and have it actually matter, you would have to create a new slogan on the same level. Otherwise you're just armchair politicking from the internet same as everyone else

Now, with that out of the way, defund is still a good slogan. The primary reason is if we defund the police then we can create something that is not called police that isn't beholden to all of the laws and regulations and the corrupt unions that perpetuate the current systemic problems

Defund as a slogan is about cutting past the red tape of reform and starting from scratch to build something systemically better

[-] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 3 days ago

Who cares if it has sticking power if it’s produced no results? All that talk of reforming the police has completely evaporated, and that was before Trump was elected.

“Defund” was a terrible word to use and people need to stop using it. Frankly I thought it was already retired.

[-] ghen@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 days ago

Protests don't work so we should stop protesting? That is honestly the most brain dead thing I've heard yet on the subject!

If you want to retire it, make something better like I already said. We can't retire it until there's something to replace it.

[-] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

When did I ever say protests don’t work? What are you talking about? I am saying this specific term did not prove to be good. In fact, it was VERY useful for the right wing media machine to easily twist words and distract from the end goal.

There are other tactics and verbiage that should be used.

[-] ghen@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 days ago

Then do it. Make it a bigger deal. But don't just sit there and decry what is actually working as a rallying slogan when you have nothing to contribute. When your slogan is a better slogan with a better message behind it, then I will switch my own tune to your ideas.

[-] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

It isn’t working! That’s the fucking problem lmao

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[-] funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

"Don't defund them, just reduce the amount of funds they can spend aircradt carriers and remove the funds for armored vehicles."

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[-] count_dongulus@lemmy.world 42 points 4 days ago

The US military budget is designed to independently fight and win another two-theater war in Europe and Asia. Has been since WWII. I think it would be justifiable to shrink the Europe portion of that; Russia's military capabilities are awful by this point, and Ukraine has done an excellent job demonstrating you don't need the kind of budget the US would expect to at least hold on that front.

[-] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 12 points 4 days ago

Doubtless they’re worried about the rest of us getting ideas above our station.

[-] DankOfAmerica@reddthat.com 10 points 4 days ago

I kind of agree, but also think it's important to understand a few things about this:

  • The US needs to keep its military-industrial complex active and technologically advanced at all times if it wants to be a military powerhouse. It can't decide to start it up whenever it wants because war machines have gotten too advanced. During WWII, it was easy to get the complex rolling because they just needed to churn out simple prop planes, tanks, rifles, and food. Now, they need stealth planes, laser-guided munitions, and high-tech chips.
  • Because of the geography of the US and the geopolitical situation, it would likely fight a two-front war. If the US goes to war with a formidable power, said power would surely ally with another. The US will not just fight China alone. Russia and North Korea would join. Therefore, the US military needs to be large enough to fight knowing that by population, the US is much smaller. China has just over 4 times the population of the US.
  • Having an overwhelmingly large and technologically advanced military serves as a deterrent. It's best to never go to war. It saves lives, economies, social institutions, etc. By having a decisively superior military, those that would consider starting a war avoid doing so.
  • The Department of Defense and military-industrial complex is a huge jobs program anyway. Service members receive training and all sorts of benefits that support them and their dependents. Military production companies receive reliable government contracts that make their business ventures stable investments while employees receive relatively adequate pay. If the government did not fund those contracts, all those businesses would go out of business and everyone involved would have to find other means of sustenance.
  • The US provides military defense and deterrence for more than just itself. It's practically the department of defense for most Pacific islands including Japan and the Philippines. It's also a necessary supporter of the EU and South Korea.

I'm not saying that I agree to the spending or that we shouldn't spend more on social welfare, but the solution is not obviously clear as just spending less on defense in my opinion.

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[-] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 14 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Unpopular opinion on Lemmy... but I am against Mitch and Sanders here.

We need to cut the military, tell them to do better with what they have or else. More or less keep the social aid budget where it is while trying to reign in healthcare profiteering, and pay back some debt before the next crisis.

Oh, and tax the shit out of billionaires.

We are quickly approaching the point where a large fraction of the federal budget is interest payments, and I'm sure many here know how being trapped in an interest/debt spiral feels.

[-] Soup@lemmy.world 54 points 4 days ago

You know that more social aid is cheaper, right? Keeping people afloat benefits everyone and the numbers for it are very outdated. Plus social aid pretty much always makes its way back to the government, assuming we also heavily tax the rich, since it’s money that bolster the economy and that can actually be taken from income tax because people, ya know, have a decent income.

Social aid is a positive ROI, it would be foolish to not include that investment if you were trying to strengthen your country.

[-] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

It helps the economy, but I don't agree that it efficiently percolates back up into the federal budget.

Yes, we need a lot more, and we can afford some new programs, but we've waited too long for Bernie's sweeping vision to be implemented this second. If the US budget doesn't go net positive, like right now, interest hell is going to wipe out any gains and siphon money straight to who holds that debt: the mega rich.

[-] Soup@lemmy.world 12 points 4 days ago

Deficits aren’t inherently bad, governments are supposed to turn a profit the same way a corporation is. It’s counter-intuitive, yes, but investments will help build a strong foundation now so that the other changes will be able to get a secure footing. It’s also important to know that the money is not direct. You give someone free medication so they can keep their job and you save not having to deal with all the issues that come from their homelessness. Easing poverty is the best weapon against crime, too, which saves on police budgets(in a world where we’re into doing the right thing, of course).

In your plan you already say we should tax the rich, so if we’re going to dream why not dream all the way? Why expect taxing the rich to be so easy but creating social programs from those hundreds of billions of dollars to be so difficult it has to wait?

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[-] bufalo1973@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 days ago

Easy: get rid of the middle men.

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[-] reallykindasorta@slrpnk.net 7 points 4 days ago

Government debt is a lot more like business debt than personal debt though. Japan is in like 200% debt and they’re still chugging along

[-] UsernameHere@lemmy.world 6 points 4 days ago

We need to cut the military, tell them to do better with what they have or else.

This is a popular opinion in China, Russia, Iran and North Korea.

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this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2024
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