Right? Before the election I had a political conversation with a coworker who leans more conservative and she was excited about Trump “making peace with Putin”. It was a serious wtf moment for me. “Peace” with Putin means pulling funding for Ukraine and letting Russia roll over it.

Maybe if WW3 breaks out, Biden won't hand over power to the literal fascists that are already making decisions to cause our demise.

if it causes ww3, it will be a lot less bloody war than what will be if russia is allowed to recover and take over next country

Russia is also already instigating it with having North Korean troops in the combat zone. It'll just be a tit-for-tat response.

You willing to go there to die?

Give em full air support. If it causes world war 3, it causes world war 3. Fuck it

If you are so willing to die you can join the front and fight russia in ukraine. Don't drag other people and the rest of the world in.

Give em full air support. If it causes world war 3, it causes world war 3. Fuck it

If you are so willing to die you can join the front and fight russia in ukraine. Don't drag other people and the rest of the world in.

Liberals have become full throated right wing war hawks.

Bold stance. Better to bring about world war 3 than let Russia consume its neighbors? I’ll have to sit with that one for a bit.

I grew up with the USSR so maybe I’m not quite ready to throw all earthly civilization into the fire to prevent 20% of that empire from being restored.

Well, if it violates the Budapest memorandum of 1994, of course Trump will change his mind. /s

That aside, it only would kick in if Russia used nuclear weapons, anyway. Link to the text. The present effort is all about trying to keep Europe safe through deterrence, and to a lesser degree supporting a democracy that's under attack.

Unfortunately the Budapest Memorandum doesn't obligate the US to actually protect Ukraine.

Hopefully Europe can fill the gap left if Putin's puppet cuts support US support

Yes, but they will run out of weapons very quickly

Yeah but Ukraine can lose twice.

Can’t believe you’re being downvoted for this. Everyday people are the ones who lose in a war regardless of nationality. The people who wage wars don’t fight them.

That being said, it’s not crazy to ask the country who has been developing anti-Russian weapons for 50 years to donate those weapons to an anti-Russian cause. That’s what they were built for after all.

It doesn't help that the US spends an 'OBSCENE' amount of money on their military for their own internal workings.

It's hard for any NATO member to justify more spending of their GDP.

When everyone decides to build 2/tanks per cycle.. and yet one entity is just pissing out 20/tanks per cycle,

There's so much oversupply in general, why would anyone else increase their output to 3/tanks?

stretch that out over 50 years, and that's where we are today.

I'll give you an angry upvote on this one.

I agree that the EU should do better and be independent from the US. But I still think the US should keep helping out, or at least present a plan for its decreased support over time so that the EU has time to pick up the slack.

Just suddenly pulling funding is more supporting Putin than it is "changing to America first interests".

Just a note, it's "Ukraine" not "the Ukraine".

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18233844

The actual sad truth is that unless the Russian people turn on Putin or it turns into their next Afghanistan, there is no path to victory for Ukraine. Russia is larger with more people and more resources. It may be extremely painful but they will win in the end if the war goes on long enough. That's why NATO is treating Ukraine as a way to bleed Russia. The best case scenario is to turn it into a version of Afghanistan, so expensive in money and manpower that Russia is forced to leave. The next best scenario is to bleed Russia and destroy enough infrastructure in Ukraine that Russia cannot use it as a base of operations into Europe, cannot make use of it's industrial capacity, and cannot sustain a military campaign until the next generation is old enough to rebuild the Russian military.

A negotiated peace where Russia gets to keep Eastern Ukraine and start again in a couple years is the worst possible scenario as far as NATO is concerned. It will cause an arms race, and it allows Russia to absorb it's losses (economic, material, and manpower) in a way that avoids critical problems.

Ukraine is in a horrible spot between two giants, one is despicable and the other is willing to defend itself with the utilitarian moral guide of the ends justifying the means.