...keep building legal and easy housing. Megacorps and oligarchs get crushed when the bubble pops underneath them.
Well, it'll ding them. But the ones hurt worst will be those invested in the ponzi scheme that is the american retirement system.
Like at my last job my tiny nothing of a 401k was invested in mortgage holdings. Had the bubble burst then all my money would be gone.
"Marginal Utility" - $10,000 is a lot to me. Its not worth stooping over to pick up for a Blackrock Exec.
Don't worry we'll bail them out like we always do
This is becoming a global problem. It's not just that you can't easily build houses anywhere, there's also the fact that housing is mostly built for profit so if prices go too low, new housing stops being built. I think you can see where this is going.
Whenever someone says they aim to make it "easier to build houses", I feel they just mean they'll remove certain standards. Not the "must have this many parking spaces" standards which we can do without, the "do we really need a fire ladder?" standards. And then the house is sold at the same price(+inflation) than before because the cost cut all goes to the builder, not the buyer.
If you assume the building company is exploiting every change in regulation (they do like money after all), small changes do nothing and you readily adopt more extreme views (and if you're racists you blame the people with neither money nor power, but that's expected of them).
It depends where you are, in the UK we have american HOA level regulations on house building, your permission can be denied because of the shade of your roof tiles or because the sheds are using the wrong shape of corrugated roofing sheets. Of course the problem is more that these things are very ill defined and the local planning office gets incredibly petty with the power they're given.
I've never met a person actually making that argument, though. I'm certainly not advocating removing building safety codes, only the NIMBY bullshit like exclusionary zoning that was literally designed to keep people of color far away from white people. Even the opening paragraphs of Wikipedia page for the YIMBY movement say it's primarily in favor of removing things like exclusionary zoning and parking minimums:
The YIMBY movement (short for "yes in my back yard") is a pro-housing movement[1] that focuses on encouraging new housing, opposing density limits (such as single-family zoning), and supporting public transportation. It stands in opposition to NIMBY ("not in my back yard") tendencies, which generally oppose most forms of urban development in order to maintain the status quo.[2][3][4]
As a popular organized movement in the United States, the YIMBY movement began in the San Francisco Bay Area in the 2010s amid a housing affordability crisis and has subsequently become a potent political force in local, state, and national[5][6] politics in the United States.[7][8]
The YIMBY position supports increasing the supply of housing within cities where housing costs have escalated to unaffordable levels.[9] They have also supported infrastructure development projects like improving housing development[10] (especially for affordable housing[11] or trailer parks[12]), high-speed rail lines,[13][4] homeless shelters,[14] day cares,[15] schools, universities and colleges,[16][17] bike lanes, and pedestrian safety infrastructure.[3] YIMBYs often seek rezoning that would allow denser housing to be produced or the repurposing of obsolete buildings, such as shopping malls, into housing.[18][19][20] Cities that have adopted YIMBY policies have seen substantial increase in housing supply and reductions in rent.[21]
The YIMBY movement has supporters across the political spectrum, including left-leaning adherents who believe housing production is a social justice issue, free-market libertarian proponents who think the supply of housing should not be regulated by the government, and environmentalists who believe land use reform will slow down exurban development into natural areas.[22] Some YIMBYs also support efforts to shape growth in the public interest such as transit-oriented development,[23][24] green construction,[25] or expanding the role of public housing. YIMBYs argue cities can be made increasingly affordable and accessible by building more infill housing,[26][27][28]: 1 and that greenhouse gas emissions will be reduced by denser cities.[29]
So you'll be interested in California's solution. If the project contains enough low income housing and the city won't approve it the developer can just build it anyways. All the safety standards are still required, they just can't be stopped from building it. And if they build it within a certain distance of a light rail stop they don't have to include parking.
I love this
At first, yes, but eventually prices come down when there's a glut of supply
We're disproving this really fast in California. It turns out developers want to build single family homes. It's more profitable to them than buildings.
Literally everyone agrees that more housing should be built and it shouldn't be too hard to do so (just don't sacrifice safety standards). However, simply building more housing isn't enough. A lot of the housing built nowadays are built for the rich while there aren't many small starter-homes being built. We need to do so much more than just building more homes, or else we risk the rich just buying them all up again.
EVERY BUILDING project in my city is upscale rich housing.
This is myopic thinking. We all live in one big housing market. If you don't have enough houses built, it doesn't provide housing for the working class. You just end up with multi-millionaires living in tiny homes.
When you restrict the ability of builders to build new homes, they focus on maximizing the profit of the few homes they can make. We had cheap housing in the US in eras where we made it possible for builders to build vast numbers of housing on a colossal scale. That way you can really harness economies of scale and drive down the price tremendously.
There are two ways to make money by making something. You can either make high-margin luxury goods, or you can make vast numbers of low-margin affordable goods. Our current restrictions on home buildings encourage developer to take the former path, when we want to encourage them to take the latter.
Who tf is saying "execute landlords" maoist style but also "deport immigrants"
My U.S.S.R. refugee/immigrant next door neighbor that owns a few houses she rents out. She’s not the brightest bulb.
Hot take. Stop making so many new people so we don't have to live crowded like ants and destroying all our environment to provide housing.
Just stop having so many children.
population control is just advocating for eugenics
They aren't advocating for population control, they are advocating for individuals to make their own decisions wisely.
Edit: Nevermind. https://lemmy.world/comment/13130336
No it's not.
That's already happened. US birthrates have been below replacement rates for over a decade, and most of Europe before that.
My european country population keeps growing each years and birth/death rate while was good over some time (more death than births) is turning around once again and births are again skyrocketing.
We only had a few sensible years of decreasing population, since 2018 aprox population is again on the rise here.
Pretty sure US population has also being growing lately instead of decreasing as it should.
US population is only growing due to immigration. Birth rates are well below replacement rate.
Then maybe it's not only US and Europe the countries which should control birthrate.
The thing is that there is too many people. Land cannot house so many. We are destroying nature just because some people insist to bring more and more and more humans to this world.
There's plenty of land. Consider that in 1930, Germany had 139 people per km^2, France had something around 65 people per km^2. The US today has only 38 per km^2. But the German or French citizen in 1930 didn't use quite so many single use plastics.
That's pretty idiotic. We don't have a shortage of land. We have a shortage of land within a reasonable commuting distance of job centers.
Which is then wasted on urban sprawl and parking lots. We don't have a land problem or an overpopulation problem. We have a sustainability problem.
Each human needs a LOT of land to live to their fullest.
Do you want to live like in the 30s only to house more people?
Also it's an unsustainable point of view. If you defend letting people forever grow there's going to be a hard natural stop to that. Because at some point nature will make you stop.
I support a stable point of view. One billion of human beings on earth. Plenty space for us and for nature, les pollution, less emissions. Lots of chances for massive natural reserves...
1 billion people living unsustainably is still unsustainable. Birth rates in the most unsustainable countries are dropping, and this is ultimately a good thing, but it's insufficient on its own.
By simple math each of those 1 billion people should be able to live with 10 times more resources at hand that if we had 10 billion people.
I don't think there's a way to live better without resource consumption and environmental damage. So the question keeps being the same. More people living worse or less people living better.
Society can handle many many more people, they just choose not to so they can have their SUVs and newest iphones.
The more humans we have the worse we will live.
I suppose it's a moral choice. More people living worse or less people living better.
I prefer the later. Specially because the prize is just having less children, it's just a small cultural change.
I get nothing out of a crowded world where I have to be miserable just to make space for more people.
Less people being able to live to their fullest seems the more humanist approach.
The problem is that people say the latter as if it's a solution on its own without also doing the former.
To my knowledge absolutely no one saying "Ban landlords" is also saying "Don't build any more housing." But there are plenty of people who think that you can build housing, in an environment where rich landowners have the ability to buy up and hoard everything you build, and don't comprehend that this in no way solves the problem.
I don't think you live where I live. Because where I live there is just no room to build many more houses without demolishing other houses first. There is a lot of discussion about moving away from single-family houses and increasing the density of living space. I don't see how this would be solved by making it easier to build.
ETA: Just to be clear, I absolutely am not advocating for deporting immigrants.
Do some reading about "the missing middle." In many cases the sort of medium-density housing like row houses or duplex/triplex/quadruplex designs that offer more comfort and privacy than a massive apartment complex but are more affordable than single family houses on large lots are explicitly regulated against in American cities, and local codes need to change in order to allow the sort of humane-but-cost-effective housing that will make a dent in the affordability crisis. Problem is, though, that existing homeowners see denser housing as a threat, both to the value of their own properties, and to the comfortable social homogeneity of their neighborhoods. At some level you need to have the power to force these developments through over the objections of the neighbors, undemocratic as that is, or else the problem never gets solved.
The ones who find social homogeneity "comfortable" are the boomer bigots in power. That is one of the main obstacles to progress in this despicable & irrational inequality: removing the churchy racist fucks from office.
In truth, NIMBYism is a gigantic problem even (especially!) in places where people profess to hold liberal and/or progressive values. It's a massive contributor to the housing crisis in California, for instance... and the attitude is not limited to Boomers, who are reaching the age now where they're as likely to be entering assisted living homes as they are to be stubbornly holding on to a house in the 'burbs that's appreciated 1000% since they bought it. GenX and even those us Millennials who are fortunate enough to own can be and often are just as guilty of NIMBYism as the old folks.
Thank you for the clarification in your "ETA".
Evolving the (sub)urban planning directive beyond "single-family houses" while also "increasing the density of living space” is "making it easier to build", TBH. 😅
This has that twitter style 'make up a dude to get mad at' vibe to it.
RE: Immigrants
Trump & Co are not making this argument in good faith. They don't actually believe that immigrants are taking the jobs and houses, and their insane proposed solution is not actually intended to make anything better. Trump is a fascist trying to win power through demagoguery, and their focus is to find pain points of negative feelings they can amplify to turn people angry and create division.
A big part of this is "othering," finding someone they can turn into the bad guys so they have someone to beat up and blame for all our problems. The Jews, the Irish, the Italians, the Chinese, the blacks, the Muslims the Mexicans. It doesn't matter who, as long as they can find a way to tap into hate and bigotry, and funnel that into a shared anger towards anyone. Any group that is "foreign" and new can and has been the "other" we hate.
In the real world, a solution to housing shortage is as simple as it would be without immigrants. Populations have been growing for centuries, and we simply build more and upwards to provide housing for everyone. Since people are working, their productivity allows them to pay for their housing. This is not particularly complicated. When population growth happens fast, we simply need to manage this process more intently.
We are currently in a weird situation because of population shifts, increase in costs of housing (like variability in lumber costs and high interest rates), and the weird period of excess wealth that we were left in due to the pandemic economic chaos.
The real solution is by no means simply finding an "other" group to blame, hate, and throw into the ocean. The real solution is to put more effort to advance our housing development slightly faster than it would do so normally under regular population growth.
What Harris is doing makes simple sense. She proposes to give incentives to house builders to build more, and to give incentives to families to be able to buy more easily than corporations. There's more than can be done, but this approach is economics-sound and will definitely work well enough while other optimizations are pursued.
Trump's idea of removing 10 million immigrants is not only deeply imbecilic, it's also designed as a catastrophe on the economy, and it's suicidal. You can't shift large segments of the population without an economic impact. Immigrants of all walks of life are part of the economy, contribute to productivity and pay taxes. In various sectors they are a key source of labor supply where we would otherwise not have enough people to perform jobs. It is estimated that there are about 5 million undocumented immigrants GROWING OUR FOOD in the US. If your plan is to kill Americans by famine, kicking out the people that grow and make the food will work a treat.
I also have thoughts on how to slow down corporate ownership of housing, but there's no need to get into that since this post is already long. Harris already has the right direction by putting strong economic incentives on the things that we want to see more of. And that's a starting path towards even more improvements in the near future. But it requires having people with functioning brains and good ideas in gov.
Who is getting mad at the second part but not the first?
People who realize that not all places that need more affordable housing have space to build more housing, and that prices are inflated because of landlords and companies buying up the limited property. Like in cities.
Different situations, different priorities.
Are these being discussed as one or the other things? Why can't we have both, where applicable?
Edit: Er... I only just now noticed the "deport immigrants" part of the top panel. 😨 I want everything but that one.
Even taking you at your word, just building more houses wouldn't solve the problem unless the other existing issues are solved first. There are already more than enough houses, several times more unoccupied houses than there are homeless people in fact. If you just make it easier to build more, those new houses will just end up in the same situation as the existing lot: bought up by corporate groups as investments, held ransom by landlords, and generally NOT made available to consumers who want to buy a home.
So yeah. You're gonna see some pushback if you're only making that second argument, all that will do is make the investor class richer without solving any problems.
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