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[-] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 88 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)
  • A government imposes taxation on the citizens to fund the services the citizens are required to use for daily life.

Libertarians: "GOD THIS IS AN UNJUST TYRANNY TO ME AND ONLY ME"

  • A corporation imposes a new service fee and increases the subcription charges, to fund their wallets and act like its better than it was before.

Libertarians: "This is normal and just, everyone is stupid except for me, I read Ayn Rand."

I'm down to talk out what is a just tax, what is unfair, what the taxes should go to once collected, but I think Libertarians are too hooked on think tank propaganda to decide something for themselves.

[-] Aceticon@lemmy.world 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's even better: a lot of essential or close to it things are pretty much monopolies or cartels (for example, Internet access in most of the US) so people have no actual choice but to pay a specific entity whatever they chose to charge.

It's like tax but without the upside of taxes (which is that they're money that's supposed to entirely end up benefiting you, even if most of it indirectly) because when you buy a product or service from a monopoly or cartel only part of it goes to cover the cost of the actual product or service you're getting and a large fraction or even most of it goes to shareholder dividends, which has zero benefit for you.

I've taken to call these things Taxes Paid Directly To Private Companies.

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[-] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 10 points 1 month ago

Corporations are fucked up. They will never allow the state to be abolished because they need to collect taxes in order to bail themselves out of trouble and in order to fight wars for them at the taxpayer expense so they can reap the profits... a corporation will never go to war alone. War is fucking expensive and is rarely directly profitable. They want to socialize expenses and privatize gain, which is impossible to do without a government of some kind.

[-] ShareMySims@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

That's why you need to abolish both capitalism and state..

roll safe

Anarchy works

[-] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 8 points 1 month ago

...so, what, we're supposed to build an entire society on people's inherent willingness to help each other and just trust that crime will stop happening?

Like mate, I hate to break it to you, but psychopaths exist. The entire problem with capitalism is that some people are never satisfied no matter how much they have and will do anything they possibly can to hoard anything that could give them an advantage at the expense of the group.

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[-] juergen@lemmy.sdf.org 57 points 1 month ago

Surprisingly, tyranny.com is for sale.

[-] EleventhHour@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Do you expect despots to shell out their own money for things like that?

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[-] underwire212@lemm.ee 41 points 1 month ago
[-] undergroundoverground@lemmy.world 33 points 1 month ago

I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.

“Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”

“What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”

“Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”

The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”

“Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”

“Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”

He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”

“Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”

I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.

“Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.

“Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.

“Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”

It didn’t seem like they did.

“Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”

Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.

I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.

“Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.

Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.

“Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.

I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”

He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.

“All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”

“Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.

“Because I was afraid.”

“Afraid?”

“Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”

I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.

“Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”

He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me

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[-] Balrog@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 1 month ago

whitehouse.gov =/= whitehouse.com

[-] macarthur_park@lemmy.world 65 points 1 month ago

I went to elementary school when whitehouse.com was still a porn site. I remember a class in the computer lab where we were supposed to do research on the government. Our teacher was very clear about going to the .gov website and absolutely not the .com one.

Whatever adult content blocking they had set up did not work.

[-] magnetosphere@fedia.io 25 points 1 month ago

The best short summary I’ve seen in a while

[-] Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 24 points 1 month ago

Ha, a rare example of an accurate meme about libertarianism.

Though, to be fair, libertarianism doesn't necessarily advocate for a market devoid of regulation (regulation being paradoxically required to ensure consumer freedom), but, generally, libertarianism seeks to maximize market freedom within the confines of the desired level and flavor of consumer freedom.

[-] Soup@lemmy.world 45 points 1 month ago

And yet every libertarian in practice just hates paying taxes and whines when potholes don’t get filled in despite them never reporting them. They’re sad and angry at the world and feel hyper-insecure about asking for, or even accepting, help.

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[-] kittenzrulz123 22 points 1 month ago

Most "Libertarians" grow up as soon as they read any political theory, I personally became an Anarcho-Syndicalist

[-] Default_Defect@midwest.social 27 points 1 month ago

What are your views on sword-based governance?

[-] SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 21 points 1 month ago

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

[-] kittenzrulz123 14 points 1 month ago

Supreme executive power derives from a mandate of the masses, not some farcical aquatic ceremony

[-] _stranger_@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

I'm glad we all agree you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!

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[-] FundMECFSResearch 21 points 1 month ago

I hate how the american version of “libertarianism” is what people think of instead of the original french left wing ideology.

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 18 points 1 month ago

It's deliberate. Left-wing ideologies are basically "we don't really benefit from these traditional hierarchies and we'd be better off if we didn't concentrate resources in the hands of a small number of owners so much", which is hard to argue against.

So those who want to keep their power in the current system try to misdirect the debates themselves with "libertarianism" and "neo liberalism" which are both economically conservative ideologies that try to separate the idea of personal freedom from economic ones and ignore that any "freedom" in business is against a background of negotiation leverage, so more freedom in business gives more advantages to those with more leverage.

That first paragraph is also why conservatives put so much attention towards making it difficult to vote, get a good education, or find various supports. They know trying to argue that they should have control of most of the wealth is a losing argument so they go for confusing as many as possible or keeping them busy with their own survival.

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[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 18 points 1 month ago

Not left libertarians (typically). I'm trying to reclaim this term from the right-wing chuds who have taken it over.

[-] h3mlocke@lemm.ee 13 points 1 month ago

Best I can do is Libarbarians

[-] metaStatic@kbin.earth 12 points 1 month ago
[-] kittenzrulz123 9 points 1 month ago

As an Anarcho-Syndicalist I disagree, the term Libertarian should be reclaimed by those who truly support Liberty and oppose hierarchy

[-] metaStatic@kbin.earth 7 points 1 month ago

sounds like you already have a term for that

[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 8 points 1 month ago
[-] Enkers@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I'd say because it's a losing battle. It takes substantially less effort to drag a symbol or label through the mud than it does to clean it off. Add to that it's still in active use by rightoids, and all you're going to accomplish is giving people the wrong idea of what you stand for.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

I've seen the term Libertarian Communist around and that makes sense in an international setting. In the US both terms are tainted though. You could try a synonym like Social Autonomy though.

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[-] g0d0fm15ch13f@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

Just like how the American left wing is still right of center, it feels like American libertarians are still auth of center. Glad there's at least one maniac like me out there

[-] rigatti@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

What is a leftibertarian in your opinion?

[-] Donkter@lemmy.world 20 points 1 month ago

From Wikipedia, not dunking on you, I just thought this was a very clear explanation of why right-wing libertarianism is the anomaly:

In the mid-19th century,[10] libertarianism originated as a form of left-wing politics such as anti-authoritarian and anti-state socialists like anarchists,[11] especially social anarchists,[12] but more generally libertarian communists/Marxists and libertarian socialists.[13][14]

These libertarians sought to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production, or else to restrict their purview or effects to usufruct property norms, in favor of common or cooperative ownership and management, viewing private property in the means of production as a barrier to freedom and liberty.[19] While all libertarians support some level of individual rights, left-libertarians differ by supporting an egalitarian redistribution of natural resources.[20] Left-libertarian[26] ideologies include anarchist schools of thought, alongside many other anti-paternalist and New Left schools of thought centered around economic egalitarianism as well as geolibertarianism, green politics, market-oriented left-libertarianism and the Steiner–Vallentyne school.[30]

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[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 8 points 1 month ago

Similar to anarchism with a large overlap but I would say it includes other related ideologies as well. To be an anarchist I think you need to be very anti-capitalist and very anti-state. I think left libertarianism needs to be at minimum very skeptical of all authority structures but not necessarily opposed to them in all circumstances.

For myself, I’d like to get to anarchy long term but I see more of a gradual transition happening. So I am OK with retaining some state and capitalist structures as intermediate steps with the long-term goal of eliminating them once we develop superior social systems.

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[-] Gleddified@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 month ago
[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 19 points 1 month ago
[-] 0ops@lemm.ee 7 points 1 month ago

The Redcoats are coming!

[-] drathvedro@lemm.ee 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

tyranny.su ☭

Just $5/yr, up for grabs

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[-] mechoman444@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

Tranny.com is a shitty cam site.

Trust me. I thoroughly checked so you don't have to.

[-] toastal@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 month ago

All this needs is the political compass overlaid & this is perfect TBH

[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

Honestly kind of works like a political compass lol

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this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2024
1233 points (100.0% liked)

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