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Misgendering does not rule (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 1 month ago by unlawfulbooger to c/196
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[-] inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world 131 points 1 month ago

Even with a trans person does something shitty, such as Blair White, Caitlyn Jenner or Ezra Miller, it's not a free pass to misgender them. The only effect of that is the trans people in your life know you aren't the ally you claim to be. You aren't misgendering your friends because you are polite. It's absolutely not okay, keep criticizing crappy trans folk, but when you intentionally misgender then you attack all of us.

[-] YtA4QCam2A9j7EfTgHrH@infosec.pub 18 points 1 month ago

There is a literal nazi who chose the name Augustus Invictus and I will call him that as I wish for him the absolute worst. He is on trial so hopefully he gets the worst.

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[-] 1stTime4MeInMCU@mander.xyz 94 points 1 month ago

Also applies to misogyny in general. You can call out terfs (or just regular anti trans conservative women) for being bigoted shit faces without resorting to gendered attacks.

[-] unlawfulbooger 27 points 1 month ago
[-] bizarroland@fedia.io 17 points 1 month ago

Any person regardless of their sexuality or gender can be an asshole.

As long as you don't target them for their identity, you can call them out for their assholeshness.

[-] JPAKx4 84 points 1 month ago

I only deadname twitter, am I chill?

[-] 1stTime4MeInMCU@mander.xyz 97 points 1 month ago

Corporations aren’t people, they don’t have deadnames or pronouns. Fire away

[-] princessnorah 16 points 1 month ago

Citizens United vs Federal Election Commission has entered the chat

(/s if it wasn't obvious)

[-] pmc 37 points 1 month ago

I think deadnaming the corporate entity Twitter is fine as long as a certain CEO continues to deadname his living breathing daughter.

[-] ShareMySims@sh.itjust.works 36 points 1 month ago

Ooh, this is a great template, can be applied to all variety of bigotry, which people feel is ok as long as it's aimed at other bigots, ignoring the fact that all they're doing is putting more bigotry out in to the world, and telling marginalised people around them that they aren't safe.

[-] shneancy@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago

can be applied to any shitty behaviour tbh. Too many people think that once someone is shitty to them, they have free reign to also be shitty as a payback. They think they gave the asshole a piece of their own medicine, but actually they started rolling in the mud with them

[-] ShareMySims@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Hard disagree.

Calling an asshole an asshole has no oppressive or marginalising power. It is a direct consequence of someone's behaviour, and has no impact on anyone but the asshole being called an asshole. Take it a step further and switch "asshole" to "Nazi" then go read about the paradox of tolerance and the social contract theory that resolves it.

Misgendering on the other hand (just like using sexist, racist, ableist and so on language) reinforces the existing structures of marginalising and oppressive powers, and has a deep and harmful impact not on the, for example, transphobe you're misgendering, but on trans people you're supposedly attacking the transphobe to defend.

This outrageous comparison between someone shitty being called shitty, and a transphobe being misgendered, is exactly the kind of bullshit bigots and other bullies twist to make themselves the victims and whine about being oppressed when they are the ones oppressing others.

Don't buy in to it, and definitely don't play along, unless you want to enable them.

[-] shneancy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

nowhere did i say that calling an asshole an asshole is bad. What i did say that acting like an asshole towards the asshole is bad, as it lowers you to the same level as them, and additionally reinforces the asshole's behaviour & continues the cycle of assholery

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[-] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 36 points 1 month ago

I often ask people who deadname (bad) trans people if they also deadname Stalin. Oh, the mental gymnastics I often see...

[-] saturno@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 month ago

what do you mean by deadname stalin?

[-] yenguardian 18 points 1 month ago

Stalin was not his birth name

[-] Taalnazi@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

His birth name was Iosif Dzhugivashili if I recall it correctly.

[-] SassyRamen@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

Yeah no way in hell I'm remembering that, none the less saying it.

[-] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 1 month ago

i do not give a chili, find your own

[-] Alice@beehaw.org 23 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

People will accuse you of condoning a trans person's shitty actions if you gender them correctly, then turn around and use the proper pronouns for literal dictators

[-] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 20 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I've seen right-wingers try to weaponize misgendering as some walk on eggshells type of thing. But it really isn't. Just apologize if you do misgender someone and make sure to use their correct pronouns.

[-] moosetwin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 1 month ago

yeah it's depressing seeing people decide that it's okay to do asshole things if it is towards asshole people, I understand that you want to be a jerk back but it makes me feel like we lost the progress we just made towards not doing the asshole thing

[-] OrnateLuna 5 points 1 month ago

At least the issue for me isn't the being an asshole to an asshole it's the throwing other people under the bus while being an asshole to the asshole.

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 15 points 1 month ago

Exactly how I felt about those pictures of Andrew Tate in swim trunks with seamingly no budgie to smuggle. Him being shitty to trans, doesn't make it OK to mock him for maybe being trans. Makes us no better.

[-] HawlSera@lemm.ee 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Looks at Caitlyn Jenner We recognize your status as woman, but you are now on this council. Do not take a seat.

I will however misgender cispeople who are openly bigoted, as a "Uno Reverse Card" on their "Transvestigation" nonsense...

Wait I just realized that term is a pun on "Transvestite" and Transvestism has literally nothing to be with being trans... If I were to wear a woman's clothing I'm not wearing the opposite gender's clothing for kicks, because I AM a woman, god damn it htese mother fuckers.

Also it's okay to deadname a corporation, or Jesse Mcree, or Dr. Robotnik. Probably shouldn't deadname Mr. Satan, the name Hercule is on fucking life support and that's probably for the best.... But don't be that dick who says they're boycotting DBZ because Vegeta deadnames Goku by calling him "Kakarot"

I have sadly seen that argument before...

Wait what the fuck am I talking about anymore?

[-] inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world 24 points 1 month ago

Wait what the fuck am I talking about anymore?

I... don't know. But please don't misgender cis people. It just makes it harder to convince them that misgendering is wrong if you also do it. The trans community is more vulnerable to misgendering than the bigots, so if we start doing it to people we don't like, then it becomes some sort of schoolyard insult revenge term where we as trans folk lose.

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[-] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

The one exception should be teachers who refuse to stop misgendering a student, and then only done by the other students.

[-] unlawfulbooger 5 points 1 month ago

Even then, there’s probably a better way to solve the problem, instead of a petty “no U”.

[-] Gladaed@feddit.org 10 points 1 month ago

Yes, but actually no. Using deadnames of companies is much more acceptable than for people.

[-] Glytch@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

Despite what the Supreme Court will tell you, corporations aren't actually people, so you don't have to worry about dead naming them.

[-] samus12345@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

Deadnaming is not necessarily misgendering. Sometime people have deadnames for reasons other than gender.

[-] Klear@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago

Meanwhile Alfred will be going around misgendering people because he does not give a crap about Batman's rule.

[-] beefbot 5 points 1 month ago

Ugh but it’s so EASY to upset anti-trans people who are so invested in hurting others by using this tactic, and they deserrrrrve it so much

[-] AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 month ago

But its still funny how violently some people react to something that they do to other people every day(double standards)

[-] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

Which people to which people? You're imagining things if you think queer people deliberately misgender cis people on the regular.

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[-] SunlitSorceress@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 month ago

I mean, there's misgendering and misgnedering, isn't there?

Accidentally calling a woman a man on the internet coz u didn't know is not a big deal.

It can be something liberals use for their witch hunts.

[-] shneancy@lemmy.world 43 points 1 month ago

not knowing someone's pronouns & assuming wrong =/= misgendering

knowing someone's pronouns and intentionally using the wrong ones = misgendering

[-] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago

Also, fighting years of muscle memory =/= misgendering.

I might have misgendered an old friend of mine shortly after they started transitioning, but they knew it was a mistake and didn't seem to care.

[-] Blazingtransfem98@discuss.online 11 points 1 month ago

My mother uses that excuse though, same excuse she uses to call me my old name, and to say that I'm a man. Horrible old witch. I know it's an excuse because she doesn't bother correcting herself, she keeps going and is insistent that I'm actually a man and that it can't be changed.

[-] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

I think once or twice in the first couple of months of transitioning that started about four years ago and we're still talking and helping each other indicates that there's no hard feelings. It's also not like I'm neutral on the subject otherwise. The people in this friend group know that I'm an ally on this subject. They also know I can even flub names when I get tired.

You know your mother doesn't respect you. My friends know I respect them.

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[-] princessnorah 9 points 1 month ago

Yeah absolutely this. I've seen too often in trans spaces when these sorts of accidents aren't given any leeway or grace. We're all human though, and it bothers me when folks are put down when there was zero malicious intent.

My mum deadnamed me more recently, despite me being out for almost eight years now. But she called me my older brother's name first, then deadname, then Norah. She was mortified, and apologised profusely. How could I hold any ill will against her for that?

[-] PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 month ago

Lmfao. I'd never thought of that as an extra issue for trans people. My mom can go through her siblings, then my sister and I before getting my brother's name right.

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[-] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

What is it with mothers accidentally using the wrong names? It's not like most mothers nowadays have 5 children who all look nearly the same.

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[-] laffytaffer@lemm.ee 4 points 1 month ago

misgnedering

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this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2024
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