submitted 7 months ago by theangriestbird@beehaw.org to c/animals@beehaw.org

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[alt text: an illustration of a person with a head-empty expression on their face, who is saying, "Not letting your cat outside is CRUEL!" Around the person are various gruesome scenes of different cats in distress. From the top and going clockwise, the scenes include: a cat being carried away by a hawk; a cat that is on fire; a dead cat in the road that has been run over by a car; several dead kittens; a cat that is missing an eye and various patches of fur; a cat that is feasting on a songbird; and a cat that is being carried away by a coyote. The person appears to be completely oblivious to these scenes of distress.]

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[-] luciole@beehaw.org 19 points 7 months ago

This neither funny nor informative. You're just antagonizing for the sake of it.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 21 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

i care a lot about the health and happiness of cats AND about the health of my local wildlife. Clearly some folks don't understand that letting their cats roam outside is bad for the cat and for the local native wildlife, so I would argue that this post is plenty informative.

Edit: generally, I would say this follows the format of other political cartoons - using an illustration to make an argument succinctly.

[-] Vodulas@beehaw.org 19 points 7 months ago

This is a good overview for folks that think cats should be outside. This particular quote stands out:

Although originally bred from their wild counterparts, domestic cats (which include feral felines and pets) are not native to any ecosystem, making them an invasive species everywhere they exist

https://www.popsci.com/environment/outdoor-cats-spread-diseases/

[-] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 17 points 7 months ago

I've never understood how this is so controversial

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 12 points 7 months ago

People's parents taught them that cats need to be allowed to roam outside to be healthy and happy. Many people don't have the critical thinking skills to change the views that their parents gave them.

[-] echo@lemmings.world 12 points 7 months ago

Quick! Give us the stupidist fucking take on this that you possibly can!

Today we learned that outdoor birds and cats are extinct because cats killed all the birds and wolves/birds killed all the cats.

[-] jerkface@lemmy.ca 15 points 7 months ago

Several years ago, we (ie the human scientific community) learned that cats are the leading cause of death of ALL BIRDS AND MAMMALS IN NORTH AMERICA.

[-] echo@lemmings.world 7 points 7 months ago

Perhaps all cats collectively, but not well-fed, cared-for house cats in particular. I've always had cats and they only very rarely catch a bird. It does the cause a disservice to be intellectually dishonest.

[-] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 2 points 7 months ago

Agreed. The "feral" (shed cats) that we take care of (and fixed)... They've killed all of maybe 12 animals in the past 8 years that we know of (maybe 10x that for shit they've killed that we didn't know about). The correct answer is that number would be thousands of critters... but isn't because we give them cat food that's available to them at will. It also stops them from roaming outside of the "local" area.

The large population of cats together can do a bunch of damage. Feral cats likely do a hell of a lot damage. But claiming that letting a single cat be outside is the end of the world for the local critters is crazy.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 14 points 7 months ago

cats are an invasive species. this is a proven fact, supported by ecologists. and if you love your cat, you won't let them outside to get run over by a car. there are million other ways to provide a cat with similar enrichment.

[-] echo@lemmings.world 8 points 7 months ago

Humans are an invasive species... maybe we shouldn't be allowed outside?

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 8 points 7 months ago

I as a human can make the conscious choice to live in harmony with the living beings around me. Cats are predators that act on instinct most of the time. It isn't their fault that they hunt delicate species to extinction just for fun - they literally cannot help it. Which is why we, the humans with big brains and reason, need to help them more harmoniously with their environment. Especially given that we are the bastards that brought them all over the world in the first place.

[-] echo@lemmings.world 3 points 7 months ago

My cats very rarely range far from my property and far more rarely have caught a bird. They fixed and well-fed. Not all cats are equally 'bad'.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 7 points 7 months ago

#notallcats

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[-] Oka@sopuli.xyz 10 points 7 months ago

My first cat was eaten by a mountain lion. That was not on my Bingo card of all the things that I thought he could die from.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 12 points 7 months ago

you'd be surprised how many predators are living within walking distance of your home, even in metro areas! Even in places where they are less, cats still have to watch out for the apex predator: Honda Civics

[-] rockerface@lemm.ee 4 points 7 months ago

There's always a bigger cat... I guess?

[-] LallyLuckFarm@beehaw.org 9 points 7 months ago

This has gone like other "cats are not native to everywhere and are massively impactful to the areas in which they are introduced" threads has gone, and while it has been more civil than the last, is going a bit sideways.

Depriving cats of enjoyment and engagement is not nice, that's why we as owners can play with them using toys designed to satisfy their predatorial urges. Leaving cats unsupervised outside is also not nice to local bird populations, or those unsupervised cats who suffer unspeakable outcomes.

[-] Faydaikin@beehaw.org 9 points 7 months ago

Not letting your cat outside is cruel. Not considering the environment it'll be in is also cruel.

Perhaps people should just be more mindful when it comes to their choice of pets and if they should even have one.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 13 points 7 months ago

how is it cruel? There are many, many, many ways to provide enrichment for a cat without letting them outside to get run over by a car. I'm all for catios and taking cats for a walk on a leash or in some sort of covered carrier, as a form of enrichment. But I don't think the absence of those activities is inherently cruel.

[-] Faydaikin@beehaw.org 4 points 7 months ago

It is. They need to be outside as much as you do.

Nobody thrives in an exclusively indoor environment. They go crazy. Sterilization can help a bit, but they still need to go out sniffing stuff and at least play at hunting daily.

There's a reason even prisons have courtyards and outside activities. It's downright dangerous for everyone if they didn't.

[-] desktop_user 2 points 7 months ago

I also rarely go outside, I am a perfectly normal human.

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[-] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 4 points 7 months ago

There are many, many, many ways to provide enrichment for a cat without letting them outside

Sure, I could buy some live mice for her to ‘play’ with, but I don’t want that mess inside my house.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 11 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

your cat does not need to hunt live animals to be happy and healthy. That's what cat toys are for. You should be playing with your cat at least 20 minutes a day, if not more. I get that some cats get lazy and don't want to play for 20 minutes, and I got no judgment for stopping early if your cat is super uninterested. But you gotta at least try every day. That's just part of responsible cat parenting.

To @Faydaikin@beehaw.org's point, I think that if you can't do that, you shouldn't adopt a cat.

[-] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 5 points 7 months ago

your cat does not need to hunt live animals to be happy and healthy.

It’s a predator, of course it needs to hunt to be happy.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 11 points 7 months ago

yep. which is why you should play with your cat with toys, which won't give them disgusting diseases like wild animals will.

[-] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 3 points 7 months ago

Nah. She’s this fluffy little murder machine. She needs to sow death and destruction on the local mouse population.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 7 points 7 months ago

i guess, if you enjoy being a menace to your local ecology. Then go off, king.

[-] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 3 points 7 months ago

a menace to your local ecology.

That’s a funny way of saying ‘pest control’.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 4 points 7 months ago

if you consider endangered songbirds to be pests, then sure i guess.

[-] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 2 points 7 months ago

You don’t even know where I live. What endangered songbirds? Also: very few cats are actually capable of catching birds. We mostly have jackdaws around here, and they are way too smart to get caught. They like to taunt the cats.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 2 points 7 months ago

read the study yourself. The most commonly preyed-upon species by cats is birds. It's a global problem. I will grant you that perhaps cats fit slightly better into the urban ecosystems of Europe, but this is a minor point. They still have an outsized population due to human influence, so they will always be massively disruptive to local ecology. And none of this is considering the danger posed to the cats themselves, whom we all love.

[-] erin 4 points 7 months ago

Trolling, intentionally obtuse, or just dumb? Because as we all know, cats never kill anything but pests. Native animals would never become endangered because of domesticated cats. At least put a bell on them or something so they don't kill the wildlife.

[-] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 2 points 7 months ago

That depends entirely on where you live. Cats are pretty much native animals here in Europe.

At least put a bell on them or something so they don't kill the wildlife.

Tell me you’ve never owned a cat without telling me you’ve never owned a cat.

[-] erin 2 points 7 months ago

I own two cats, and they both have bells. They haven't killed any wildlife since then. Cats are not native animals in Europe, they are very much invasive and devastated local populations of birds and small mammals.

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[-] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 2 points 7 months ago

i guess, if you enjoy being a menace to your local ecology. Then go off, king.

The guy mentions "destruction of the local mouse population" and this is your answer? So you think those mice are native? They'd exist if humans weren't here?

They are the same issue as cats... They're only here and only thriving because we accidentally give them too much safety/places to live/food. They would also be invasive.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 3 points 7 months ago

you're fooling yourself if you think that cat is only catching mice. if you let your cat roam outdoors, put a camera on them and marvel at all the creatures they kill while they are "exploring"

[-] Swallowtail@beehaw.org 2 points 7 months ago

There are native mice all over the place. Yes, some are introduced/invasive, but there are also plenty of native ones too. If you live in the Americas, here's the subfamilies they make up:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_rats_and_mice

Mice serve as food for animals like owls, hawks, falcons, snakes, skunks, etc. Cats killing these animals' prey makes it harder for them to find food.

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[-] isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 4 points 7 months ago

Walk harness. Cats should be taken on walks outside, on a harness, like dogs are.

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[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 8 points 7 months ago

Guess where all them cats would be if humans didn't exist.

[-] Vodulas@beehaw.org 9 points 7 months ago

In their native habitat, not in North America. Probably, at least. Who knows, there wouldn't be anyone around to know

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this post was submitted on 25 Sep 2024

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