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Imagine thinking toxic masculinity is a bigger problem for this issue than beef/dairy subsidies and entrenched market forces. Nice distraction piece, NPR.
I honestly believe the two are related. I think big meat agro business is paying influencers to promote toxic masculinity and push nonsense like "plants emit toxic hormones" on social media.
Maybe, but that's just to keep demand anywhere near high enough to consume the products that subsidies ensure they will be producing anyways, so they can argue that the current subsidies are necessary.
Ok, but can we not acknowledge that this shit had an effect on the whole manly incel epidemic and those people are trying to take over the most poweful country on the planet and make sure those subsidies never end?
In 2006, when Malcolm Regisford was 10 years old, a Burger King commercial began playing on TVs across the country.
In it, a man in a restaurant looks at a small vegetarian dish, turns to face the camera, and bursts into song: “I am man, hear me roar!” The man flees the restaurant, denounces quiches and tofu — “chick food,” he sings — and quickly joins a throng of other singing men. They march through the streets with signs reading “I am man” and hamburgers held high. “The Texas double Whopper. Eat like a man, man,” a voice says.
Incels gave up on being "manly enough". Their whole schtick is that its "un-fair" that "only the manliest men get laid", and that they believe they deserve sex just for being born with a dick.
I'm not saying all the "red-pill"/"sigma-pill"/"incel" groups/narratives don't feed into eachother, but you've gotta realize these people are already in the minority. It's not their influence keeping the subsidies going, it's the public's wallets keeping demand just high-enough to "justify" the subsidies, and the fact that the subsidies are backed by decades of established law.
There is no point trying to reason with the die-hards that will keep on consuming long after increased prices drive the rest of us away from beef consumption. The subsidies that keep their bull-shit lifestyles affordable and convenient should be the focus of our efforts.
Let them waste more money on being single and lonely. Their pocket-books will shout at them louder and more convincingly than the rest of us ever could.
I’m not saying all the “red-pill”/“sigma-pill”/“incel” groups/narratives don’t feed into eachother, but you’ve gotta realize these people are already in the minority.
Minority or not, they are in politics and gaining power everywhere the right wing is surging and tbey are the same people in favour of all those subsidies. That said, i agree tbat the rest of the general public needs to change their consumption habits to make a real difference. I still think it's worth pointing out the manly beef eating misogynist connection though, especially in advertising and its pernicious effects on society.
Right, that's why Kamala is ahead in the polls. You are confusing escalating rhetoric and the volume of such for the number of people that believe that garbage. They are spamming their gibberish everywhere because they know they won't win the election if enough people turn out to vote...
... but sure, go on pretending Andrew Tate represents the average American man. If you keep it up, you can scare enough women and young voters away from the polls to make a difference, and won't that be just a joy for any of us with an ounce of sense to deal with?
The idea that Republicans/conservatives are surging in numbers/influence/popularity is itself a MAGA talking point. The numbers do NOT bear it out.
go on pretending Andrew Tate represents the average American man. If you keep it up, you can scare enough women and young voters away from the polls to make a difference
How would that scare those who don't support him away from the polls? I would have thought it would be an incentive to vote? Assuming most women and young people do not support Andrew Tate.
Imagine wondering how claiming the armed election-interfering ass-hats are in the majority would scare people away from the polls.
Its difficult enough to convince people who see this country for what it is and has always been that voting is safe, ethical and worthwhile without you and people like you repeating MAGA talking points about how their numbers are increasing, when the opposite is the case.
Don't talk about the nazi's! People might get scared! Everthing is fine!
At no point did I claim they are in the majority.
If it's purely on subsidies, then why, as stated in the article, are men consuming disproportionately more beef than women? Am I missing out on my secret man meat tax cut?
Yeah, i think that research might be missing some context...
Meat consumption by males goes up when you have a developed nation, it's almost purely economic, stupid to try to make this part of the culture war considering how small these communities are and their median ages.
"Economic factors explain the influence of human development since meat production costs are higher than plant-origin food production. Nations with more resources provide more options for individuals to buy and eat beef. The findings build on comparable studies with psychological traits and help rule out reference group effects as a possible reason."
Has anyone here ever heard of this website? News-Medical.net ? Unless it's an actual study, and not some BS where data is cherry-picked from certain sample groups, I wouldn't pay it any mind.
Toxic masculinity (a.k.a. patriarchy) most definitely affects men eating more meat.
Subsidies for industrial beef production greatly affects it.
But all of this is due to the lack of societal/political change.
And, in all honesty, if it was not for the pollution created by the US military and "big business", we'd be on our 2ay to a much greener Earth already, without having to affect far more change.
It's a journal site, here's the link to the actual study in nature. The language is tougher.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-62511-3
I think i see where you're coming from, to me it feels like traveling a long path from the obvious economics of subsidy and advertising, especially the ubiquity of beef, and making that about the patriarchy. Feels removed from the problem of economic incentive, but more than just access seems to drive it, this paper has multiple relevant drivers though and it does seem to be at least partially based on gender.
Yes, you're missing that subsidies ensure the same amount of beef gets produced no matter the demand. In fact, that amount is set higher than demand. Demand is artificially increased due to the high availability and low prices resulting from these policies. Removing the subsidies would lower both Availability and Demand, as the lowered availability would increase prices.
TL;DR: Consumption gender ratios have NOTHING to do with the amount of beef that is being produced, nor, therefore, its impacts on the environment.
I can only restate the obvious so many times, and I HAVE already restated the facts on this at least twice prior to your question. Are you dense, or just insincere?
I made this decision a couple years ago. Gave up milk (switched to oat milk), but I still eat cheese and yogurt. I eat probably 20% of the red meat per year that I used to.
You don’t have to be a rabid vegan to make an impact.
But its much easier to hate vegans and pretend theyre the problem
Vegans are the problem? What problem? Causing climate change, or eating too much red meat? Your comment makes no sense.
Doesnt matter. Vegan hate does not follow logic. They brainwash our kids, they poison our wells, theyre not real men, anything goes.
Uhh…. right. You might want to check your carbon monoxide detectors.
This is such a good attitude! I cut all meat out of my diet a long time ago, and when I mention it, people often say something like "I'd love to but I couldn't commit to never having meat again".
You don't have to! It's amazing if you do, but you're still gonna make a sizable impact on the cause you care about if you reduce your intake.
It's odd that people don't have this with other issues, the idea of "reducing purchases of disposable plastic" or "buying fairtrade more" make total sense to people, but food is still often cashed out in these "all or nothing" terms.
100% spot on. I'm so tired of everything needing to be 100% or 0%. a 80% cut has an impact! so does 50%. we all need to do what we can, and not taking an extreme position doesn't make someone a sellout or faker or whatever. every little bit helps
a 80% cut has an impact! so does 50%.
i don't think so. i don't think it matters what you do in the grocery store or in a restaurant.
I think a lot of people have a problem admitting that the consumption of certain things causes harm, which is why they turn it into an all or nothing decision. But I believe in the principle of harm reduction, and not letting perfect be the enemy of ‘better’. Or put in a more positive light, ‘every little bit helps’.
You don’t have to be a rabid vegan to make an impact.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/meat-production-tonnes?tab=chart&country=~OWID_WRL
the fact is that the industry continues to grow.
I can only control my own choices. But that fact is one of the main reasons I made that choice. It’s not sustainable.
tl;dr because of toxic masculinity
It's macho to eat lots of red meat, get high cholesterol, and die early from heart disease.
Nah, how about "fish is expensive and chicken is unethical"? Meanwhile, beef is subsidized all to hell, and NPR is focused on the wrong issue. We're long past the point where it looks like they are just running interference for industries that don't want to change.
Men who refuse to acknowlege there is a problem with beef aren't the ones having a problem with attempting to eat less of it. Its market forces all the way down; Less available and/or more expensive beef is what it will take to wean the die-hards.
Fish very often costs less than beef does.
Not here in the midwestern US, nor when/where I was growing up on the Southern California coast. Where are you that fish is ever, let alone often cheaper than beef?
Pacific Northwest.
Not eating beef is pretty easy. Lots of alternatives.
I dropped beef and pork and stayed with turkey and fish.
Found a bunch of plant based options to replace the beef texture too.
It's really just some stupid mindset about STEAK that many Americans have.
I'm not vegan, and not trying to say people should be vegan. I love me a good steak, but I was out with some vegan friends, and we went to a vegan restaurant. They served me something that was doing an excellent impression of a steak. Good enough that if I knew which various plant protein they were using, I'd make that at home.
Burgers they have down these days, and eating veggies burgers allows me to have more meals a week without meat. Same for most sausages. I don't know how they did it, but I had a vegan brat that had a snappy "skin."
Not all Americans eat beef equally, data shows. Last year, Rose and his colleagues published a study looking at U.S. government data of the diets of more than 10,000 Americans. They found that on a given day, 12% of Americans account for half of all beef consumption. That 12% was disproportionately men.
I'm confused by this because I want it to mean the same 12% all the time, but I suspect they mean that it is a different 12% from one day to the next.
“Many men do reduce their meat consumption or are willing to,” says Joel Ginn, food and psychology researcher at Boston College, “but there are hurdles that they've had to overcome.”
Manly men advertising meat -- and Joe Rogan??? I guess all kinds of guys what to be oh so manly, but when I think of macho men, he's just not on that list.
Seeing someone in your close personal circle, or celebrities like athletes, make a behavior change can be an important piece of the puzzle, says Daniel Rosenfeld, psychology and food researcher at UCLA. “The way to get some people to eat less meat is to get other people to eat less meat,” he says.
Personally, both myself and my better half enjoy the newer fake meat burgers. They really are a satisfying way to get a 'manly' burger.
The more obsessed you are with the trappings of manhood the more everyone knows you're faking it
this is warmed-over poore-nemecek 2018. that's the primary basis for the claims about the climate, but the methodology of that study is fucked, and it's a disservice to actual climate science to keep touting this meta"study" that misuses its source material and myopically focuses on distilling data instead of understanding the complexity of our agricultural systems. the textile industry's water use, land use, and emissions, i guarantee, are being counted in poore-nemecek as emissions from beef. i didn't pull out the data from the separate reference to water use, but i will eat my hat if that doesn't, as well.
eating less beef has not been effective at stopping the growth of the beef industry for all the people who have done so. we need a real solution, and trying to influence individual consumer choice isn't working.
edit: down voting doesn't change the truth
this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2024
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