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Soliciting advice: Digging a big hole on hard rocky/sandy soil without a bobcat etc (vegantheoryclub.org)
submitted 3 months ago by NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org to c/gardening@vegantheoryclub.org
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I live in a place where about 30 cm down is sandstone/mixed sandstone and sand.

I want to buy and plant some established saplings in the 50L-100L pot range and plant them where I recently had to remove some sick/invasive trees.

The area is a raised garden bed with a stacked rock retaining wall, so the ability to get power tools in is quite limited. A jackhammer could probably be brought up there, but that's about the limit. I also need to remove some partially rotted stumps at the same time, however a stump grinder could not to brought to the area :(

Basically how fucked am I? Does anyone having experience in digging in soil like this have tips? Anything from what tools to use to specific technique to avoid wasted effort or hurting yourself. I'm relatively strong for a woman but not a powerlifter or anything so shape your recs around that degree of physical capability.

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[-] FrostyTrichs@walledgarden.xyz 2 points 3 months ago

When you say mixed sandstone and sand, how "mixed" are we talking about? Is it pieces/chunks of sandstone or slabs?

Have you ever tried digging in that area with a post hole digger to get a feel for how hard or rocky it might be down to the depth you're thinking you need?

What about the stumps? Are they directly in the way of where you want to start or is that a separate problem in the same general area?

[-] NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Chunks + boulders and fragments thereof. If you imagined loosely piling sandstone rocks from fist sized to head sized and filling the gaps with mud and sand that's the soil. shallowly (50- 15 cm) over slabs of sandstone.

No post holer, but jumping on a trenching shovel won't drive it into the ground. I normally break it with a mattock first.

Stumps are in and around, one I'm digging out as it's directly in the way. It is awful work and I've got bilateral subluxed ulner nerves because of it haha.

[-] FrostyTrichs@walledgarden.xyz 4 points 3 months ago

Chunks + boulders and fragments thereof. If you imagined loosely piling sandstone rocks from fist sized to head sized and filling the gaps with mud and sand that's the soil. shallowly (50- 15 cm) over slabs of sandstone.

How readily does it break apart with the mattock? There's a tool called a digging bar that is a pointed spike on one end and a flat blade on the other end. They are very heavy steel made for breaking apart rock and prying them out of places. I've used them successfully in combination with post hole diggers (puke) and both gas powered (better than nothing) and electric augers (best option imo) to break apart old concrete footings and dig new holes for decks, fences, trees, whatever. Make no mistake it is miserable work but I've had success with it. If you're unfortunate enough to have something like ironstone that may or may not work.

Stumps are in and around, one I'm digging out as it's directly in the way. It is awful work

Yeah, pretty much everything you want to do is going to be terrible without oversized industrial equipment. Stumps can be dug out, burned out, blown up, and more. Depending on how large the roots are you may be able to pressure wash the soil out of the major ones and then cut them with a chainsaw. In my experience anything big/small enough to be cut with something like pruning shears probably should be if you plan to dig holes because you'll inevitably hit them later on and curse yourself for not cutting them.

I've got bilateral subluxed ulner nerves because of it haha.

Oh is that all lol? I kid, but I quite literally feel your pain and then some. Nerve problems are not fun.

[-] NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org 2 points 3 months ago

Yeah it breaks with a mattock. Have to redress the edge every couple of hours but nothing too terrible. It looks like a digging bar might be the ticket for getting in deep. Using the mattock requires making great big pits cause you can't come straight down after a certain depth.

I can probably hire an electric auger, although tool rental gets pricey if you can't just work through it all in a day.

Had another crack at the stump this morning and it's horrible. Catch 22 as you need to move soil to cut the roots but the roots hold the soil. Because it's raised beds I don't have the room to dig further back and I've found my hands, the hose, and a small bucket for bailing the best way to get in between the mat of roots.

The council nixed burning it. If I can't get under it I guess I'll just make a chisel from a railway spike and split chunks off with a sledge hammer. Should come out if the sides are cut away and the new tree can figure it's way around the roots of the stump.

[-] FrostyTrichs@walledgarden.xyz 1 points 3 months ago

I can probably hire an electric auger, although tool rental gets pricey if you can't just work through it all in a day.

I bought one for exactly this reason. It lets me work at my own pace without worrying about taking a tool back or rental fees. Honestly the price for electric compared to a cheap gas auger is hard to justify for a one off project but the battery and charger will also work on other things you may be interested in like saws or other outdoor tools. A major perk of the electric augers is anti kickback through software compared to a gas auger that will literally throw you. They also offer reverse for times when the auger is wedged. A lifesaver if you need it even once.

Catch 22 as you need to move soil to cut the roots but the roots hold the soil.

That's why power/pressure washing can sometimes work well. Electric pressure washers are also a thing but are usually lower psi than the gas versions. If you're making progress with a regular hose the extra pressure might speed things up dramatically for you.

this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2024
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