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submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world

I know I know... "obligate carnivore"

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[-] cm0002@lemmy.world 137 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Well I mean the loud/extremist vegan minority are quick to call meat eaters as abusers ("rapist enablers" even because we'll drink milk a "rapist" (farmer) got from a cow) just for eating meat, even though most of us are far removed from the entire process.

But here they are, making a direct immoral action to force their chosen diet on another being who in all likelihood would NOT choose themselves. And that's on top of the fact they should probably not have a pet at all based on their strict interpretation of vegan.

Nah, they deserve the call out.

This entire drama has had me thinking about that one talk show clip that has a vegan guest and was talking about how their dog "Is totally vegan now and won't even choose meat if it's in front of her". When the hosts tested the dog by bringing out a vegan dish and a meat dish, the dog devoured the meat dish lmao

[-] galanthus@lemmy.world 67 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Why do you think direct immoral actions are worse than indirect immoral actions? I don't buy that. Hell, you are even saying that you are absolved of responsibility for animal abuse completely just because you are paying someone to do it, and not doing it personally. Most people just deny animal abuse happens at all, but you admit it is immoral, yet shift the blame on others along with the responsibility for murdering them, which they do for your pleasure.

This is like saying "x has hired hitmen to killed seven people, but my parent forces me to eat broccoli every day, so since x is commiting a indirect immoral action, my parent is the worst one of them.

I am not a moral person. I, quite frankly, do not care about animals, and I would like to think I would be able to murder an animal myself(for food), since I am doing it now, albeit indirectly, and if you can't live with the consequences of your decisions, why make them? Weigh the consequences of your actions. Do not run away from them like a coward(a lot of moralizing for a self-proclaimed immoral person).

I respect vegans. If you care about animal welfare, and are opposed to cruel treatment of animals you should not eat meat, and that's what they do.

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[-] yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 29 points 2 months ago

But here they are, making a direct immoral action to force their chosen diet on another being who in all likelihood would NOT choose themselves.

This is the single worst argument you could make.

Every single pet owner does that. Would any animal - including farm animals - choose to eat what humans provide them? Surely [cheapest store brand] wouldn't be popular if they had a choice.

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[-] Machinist@lemmy.world 59 points 2 months ago

Unashamed omnivore, fisher, and hunter here. Working on our play farm so we can source all of our meat ethically in the future. Taking active steps to prevent the suffering of animals we consume. Don't have an ethical or moral problem with killing animals to eat them. Prefer to do it myself so that I know that I have done my best to minimize the suffering of the critters I kill.

I've been told I'm a raper and abuser.

fite me

[-] Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 33 points 2 months ago

Much better than sourcing animal products from the supermarker. Still worse than being vegan

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[-] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 17 points 2 months ago

Fellow unashamed omnivore. The vegans have the moral high ground. I hope one day to become one. No need to shame or be ashamed of eating meat though. Changes to society take a while, shaming and blaming rarely improve the situation. It often makes things worse.

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[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 55 points 2 months ago

I can do two things, ya know.

[-] glitchdx@lemmy.world 49 points 2 months ago

nah, i just like making fun of and annoying vegans. They call me slurs that are metal as fuck like "carnist" and "bloodmouth", i love it.

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 32 points 2 months ago

You’re confusing the reactionaries with those who live by a philosophy.

[-] prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works 19 points 2 months ago

I would say it’s the reactionaries confusing everyone

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[-] dodgy_bagel 48 points 2 months ago

Cats are bad, generally.

They're killing machines that have a big impact on local wildlife.

A vegan that keeps cats isn't exactly approaching the situation from a purely vegan-based mentality.

[-] Sarmyth@lemmy.world 31 points 2 months ago

As a person with 3 cats, I get what you're saying. You're getting down voted, but we all know cats can devistate local wild life populations.

Rescuing them and making them indoor cats is the responsible thing to do, but I don't think any vegans would argue with that.

I think its after those establishing facts that the discussion is taking place.

I personally am not a fan of any breeding programs when there are so many cats and dogs available to rescue, but that's just me.

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[-] rekabis@lemmy.ca 22 points 2 months ago

A vegan that ~~keeps cats~~ allows cats outside isn't exactly approaching the situation from a purely vegan-based mentality.

There, FTFY.

Absolutely nothing wrong with cats that are 100% indoors, not only do they have no effect on the wildlife, but their lifespans are something like ⅓ to ½ longer due to the lack of accidents or conflicts.

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[-] Riccosuave@lemmy.world 28 points 2 months ago

I don't have any skin in the game as I am allergic to both cats and vegans.

However, I think this is kind of interesting because it is going to be one of the first major pieces of Lemmy Lore that a large amount of the userbase is aware of.

In a weird way it means we are forming the bonds of a real community, and even though this is clearly an antagonistic topic it is going to be a lasting piece of history that for better or worse defines our culture.

[-] owsei@programming.dev 17 points 2 months ago

this and the three days without shitting post

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[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 27 points 2 months ago

Are these vegans forcing cats vegetarian diets in the room with us?

[-] B312@lemmy.world 31 points 2 months ago

They are tho

[-] oatscoop@midwest.social 16 points 2 months ago
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[-] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 25 points 2 months ago
[-] BigBenis@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago

Who knew that so many Lemmy users were experts in the science of dietary nutrition?

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[-] JoShmoe@ani.social 20 points 2 months ago

Random user: Free Gaza!

[-] chetradley@lemmy.world 20 points 2 months ago

Why wouldn't you fight against animal cruelty?

[-] tomi000@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

People are so quick to call it animal cruelty. Did any of you ask a vet if it was harmful to the animal? I didnt coz I dont even have a cat but it seems some vegans did and were reassured that it is alright. I think that shows they care about their pet and want to ensure its health while possibly aligning it with their lifestyles, probably better than feeding them the cheapest crap they can find.

Im not saying its okay to just feed your pet veggies, but just because it doesnt seem 'natural' doesnt automatically mean it is bad. This is 'being gay is unnatural' all over again.

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[-] Beaver@lemmy.ca 17 points 2 months ago

Someone is creating a strawman argument.

Read the scientific evidence for yourself.

https://lemmy.ca/post/27579367

[-] Cris_Color@lemmy.world 48 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Its not a strawman, that would imply no one was actually advocating for feeding cats a vegan diet, and this post was made up to pretend they did in order to disparage vegans. This post is a reference to someone on Lemmy arguing in favor of vegan diets for cats, and the thread you linked is literally people advocating for and discussing vegan diets for cats.

That being said, if you read the comments you'll see vegan folks arguing that this is a difficult thing to safely do in practice, and needs oversight and direction from a vet.

Making decisions to feed your pets, who can't advocate for themselves, things other than what they biologically evolved process as a healthy diet, even if you believe you've balanced everything just right, is morally questionable.

Making such a decision about your own diet on moral grounds is an admirable sacrifice and difficult lifestyle change one can be proud of. Choosing to make that sacrifice on behalf of a creature you're responsible for the health and happiness of is needlessly jeopardizing the wellbeing of that creature. They can't communicate their needs, and you're the one responsible for them. Don't go making questionable choices on their behalf that they'd be powerless to do anything about.

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[-] Senal@programming.dev 33 points 2 months ago

TL;DR;

Posting a link to a bunch of other links you don't seem to have actually read isn't a good basis for an argument


Scientific evidence, sure, but if you'd actually read them you'd see they aren't as inline with your argument as you seem to think.

Do you mean the one behind a paywall

Perhaps the one consisting almost entirely of owner reported (and thus inherently bias) results

Maybe the meta-study that specifically calls out how little quality and volume there is in this areas of study, comments on how self-reported studies are bias and in conclusion basically says:

“It doesn’t seem to immediately kill your pets in the limited studies that have been done, we have even seen some benefits, but we don’t have enough quality data to be that confident about anything”

How about this one which is again largely based on self-reported results.

You should actually read the "Study Limitations" section for this one.

Or the last one which is about vegetarian diets, again goes out of it's way to specifically call out the lack of current research and that the majority of current research supporting these diets is "rarely conducted in accordance with the highest standards of evidence-based medicine"

I'm aware i'm cherry picking quotes and points here, but only to illustrate that these papers aren't the silver bullet you seem to think.

Not to say there is no validity to the argument that these diets can be beneficial but it's a far cry from vegan diets are scientifically proven safe for cats and dogs.

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[-] Voyajer@lemmy.world 20 points 2 months ago

After these the papers that observed limited bioavailability of synthesized taurine in cats?

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I’m vegan and just downvoted you. Also a social media post is not scientific evidence.

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[-] SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

Hey, give me a little credit...

I've managed to misrepresent two sides of an argument in this one.

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[-] MissJinx@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

live by the sword die by tbe sword

[-] manuallybreathing@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 months ago

ITT: people with big hurt feewiingssss

its okay babies, you eating meat doesnt hurt anyone! Youve never done everything wrong! Its no worse than how most of us innately benefit from imperialism, we're so far removed! Phew!

lol, we're all always so quick to start crying about hoe annoying and rude veeeegans are. We could all consume less animal products. Its ultimately not an issue of personal responsibility, its systemic and engrained in our society.

getting all pissy because someones telling you the truth and it makes you uncomfortable is embarrassing, I've been there. I still eat meat more regularly than I'd like to. I dont need to justify it, I think its bad that I do, I'm doing my best over here.

Obligate carnivore! I dont give my cats water! Only meeeeeat, rahhhh I'm a big man-or-similar!

inB4, hurt feeling downvotes 😳

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this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2024
567 points (100.0% liked)

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