This is 100% how the Nazis got into power too. Hitler made all kinds of deals with the center-right, military, conservatives, and Hindenburg himself, by promising to be a bulwark against communism, unions, and the left in general. We all know how that movie ended.
Ended? You mean fled to Argentina, paperclipped to America and stayed quiet for a few decades before getting louder... And Louder... AND LOUDER.... AND LOUDER!!!!!
would someone enlighten the uninformed like me? thanks
The context given in the title: France had an election and the left union is the biggest group but still doesn't have a majority. The president is a liberal and seems to favor the Right over the Left
Would you be able to explain the difference between "left" and "liberal" in this context?
I'm not the same person, but I'll give it a go. It's confusing in part because liberal often means leftish leaning in the US but not elsewhere.
For example Democrat and liberal are pretty much interchangeable in US political discourse, but that's not what the word means. Liberalism is more of an economic strategy. In this sense Democrats and Republicans are both liberals. They are all conservative liberals. Does that sound like a contradiction? Only in modern US politics. One party is just more conservative socially and more economically liberal.
Left or Leftist is generally in conflict with liberal ideology, as a leftist believes in strong social safety nets like universal healthcare, universal basic income, etc. Depending on the type of leftist, this could mean things like a planned economy, workers owning the means of production, or even collectivist anarchy. Examples of leftists are Socialists and Communists.
This is why, to a leftist, it's so damn funny when a republican calls a democrat a radical leftist. No self respecting leftist would be a member of the democratic party.
Sorry for all the US centric shit on a thread about France but I think that's where the confusion usually comes from.
No self respecting leftist would be a member of the democratic party.
That is such a stupid mindset. In many states you have to be a member of the party to vote in their primary. If you are not voting in any primary then you are letting people that you disagree with decide who will be in the candidate in the election. And considering that not voting is effectively voting for the candidate that you most disagree with, all the leftists that refuse to associate with the democratic party are effectively voting for the people they disagree with.
if someone doesn't agree with either party why should they vote? when someone refuses to vote for your party they are simple refusing, this does not mean they are voting for the other side. i really dislike this conflation people make.
here's a fun thought experiment. democrats win this upcoming election, does this mean all the people who didn't vote had actually voted democrats?
Stop thinking about it like you need to vote for someone to represent your views because that's NEVER how it worked. It's a tug of war, everytime you don't vote you're letting your side down.
Just because not everyone pulling with you agrees on where to stop pulling doesn't mean you get to drop the rope.
So third party are okay?
It's your local representative, as in he represents your area and his job is generally to bring more money to your area. They don't represent your political views. For that you need to pull your weight at the election to open up space for views more aligned with yours at the elected body level (example the house or senate for national elections). You might be surprised to hear this but MOST of politics is deciding what money to collect and where to spend it. A TINY percentage is what most people consider "political" stuff. When it comes to that, when you pull your weight you open up space for different views that are better aligned with how you think. It's not about how YOUR representative thinks, it's about how the entire house and Senate think. Your representative will generally be pushed to agree with the overall party position or risk being replaced.
If we all pulled our weight the elections would look like this. How many more progressives and leftists enter the ticket in this world? How many Bernie Sanders, AOCs and Ilhan Omars? Or whatever your political views are (scared to ask honestly)...
Pull your weight today, or drop the rope and be unrepresented for another round of elections.
You edited your comment from "so who represents me" to "third party okay". Third party is like attaching a new rope and pulling to the side. You're not doing much. Maybe better than nothing, but often not.
Do your own personal Instant Runoff. If you think that the third party candidate might win maybe vote for them. If they are basically guaranteed to lose, maybe vote for your next choice.
That's fair. I'm not against strategic voting.
In most countries you need to be a party member to engage in internal party politics. The idea that the heneral public makes direct choices for private political organizations is, honestly, kind of weird.
But also, which states require you to be an actual card-carrying member to participate in the primary? I was under the impression that most merely required that you register with the electoral office as a party supporter.
Being a "registered X" is very different from being "a member of X". Members get to do things like go to convemtions where party policy is discussed and voted on. Members get to vie for party nomination. They're part of the internal machinery of the party.
Yhey're not just voters with a party banner.
liberalism is a belief in free association / marketplace of ideas and is centrist on a global scale. the usa is generally right-leaning so the two major parties are the liberals (centrists) and the right wing
Think of liberals as centrists
The use of "liberal" has been taken by the right, from the neo-liberal they started with. Now they consider themselves the true liberals. It's the good ole 1984 newspeak strategy of taking the words out of their original meaning to make them lose their meaning, and their ideas behind.
I think that he is referring to "liberal" more in the sense of being in the political spectrum of economic liberal. Usually I see the difference between the US and EU definition of the term liberal: in the US it is a synonym of the left wing party or leaning, in EU is used for being liberal economic leaning and is different from being left party or left wing
Two french parties called "Renaissance Party (RE)" and "The Republicans (LR)" self identify as Liberal Policies as in parties of Personal Freedoms. RE is center and LR is Center-Right on the political spectrum.
Liberals tend to make alliances with fascists in the interest of keeping the peace.
interest of keeping ~~the peace~~ their piece
Ftfy
all libs right now. The UK is doing the exact same with less party politicking
In the US we're skipping the whole locked up part entirely
Macron is being corrupt by working with the worst of French society.
Macron is corrupted.
All the left seems able to do is call everyone else a fascist and tell them they're all awful for not agreeing with their ideological purity obsessions.
We need to actually appeal to people sometimes, actually talk about difficult subjects that affect people rather than just aay they're horrible for not putting ideology above all else.
A few positive ideas that actually make people think it'll be better for them if the left is in power
many parties are active in this, the party i am a member of are having a push towards "fight bosses not migrants" we do need unity of the working class and calling working class people fascists will only push them deeper into their corners.
the other day i spoke to someone about politics, he complained of housing prices, stagnating wages then exclaimed "its socialism" bottom line: he isn't a fascist but where he gets his information from is fascist.
We need to actually appeal to people sometimes, actually talk about difficult subjects that affect people
One side wants to talk about housing, public pensions, public healthcare, public education, salaries, discrimination against women and minorities, and work/life balance.
The other side wants to talk about immigrants being bad and evil, and about how trans people in films are turning their children gay
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Oh fuck off lmao. This post explicitly said France and your immediate response is to pretend that the internet belongs to Americans. Get a grip.
...and maybe consider pressuring your party to consider its own policy of pandering to fascism (Kamala was at AIPAC the other day, despite their known election interference in support of Israel).
Not everything is a Trump conspiracy - mf couldn't even hide his ear for long enough to make it obvious that he was vastly overreacting about how much damage the bullet did.
This is a leftist community, if you don't like it join some "progressive" Liberal community where they're so focused on "harm reduction" that genocide becomes an acceptable tradeoff
Did I miss something in France? Last i checked the center and left-leaning parties formed an alliance to keep the right wing out of power.
The left alliance doesn't have the numbers to govern on their own, and Macron (the liberals) would rather join forces with conservatives.
Do you have a source or examples? I haven't heard anything about the french situation since the left and the liberals actually formed a coalition to stop the FP from winning.
The most voted party in the wide front coalition is LFI, earning more votes than Macron's party. Macron is refusing so far to name a president from the LFI, for the first time in the history of the 5th republic of France.
Oh yeah, the lions have been out of the cage for a long time out there
Wat?
Yeah it's the liberals, ignore the horseshoe
Wait, are you sarcastic or serious? Because to antifa it's well known from history that the liberal state is ineffectual in fighting fascism and doesn't mind flirting with fascists.
They're as serious as what you find when you scratch a liberal.
Which is a communist, according to horseshoe.
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