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Under capitalism (i.imgur.com)
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[-] protist@mander.xyz 51 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There are serious ethical problems with a capitalist system, especially when it comes to the necessities of life, but there's also ample evidence that other economic systems in practice have been just as bad of not worse regarding food security, eg follow the history of the USSR from the Holodomor in the 1930s to empty grocery shelves and bread lines in the 1980s

[-] fidodo@lemm.ee 21 points 1 year ago

I view the problem as us treating a tool as a system of government. Capitalism is an incredibly powerful tool for increasing efficiency (real capitalism as in a healthy free market, not monopoly bullshit). But we should be using that tool to our benefit, not having that tool use us. We can use it as a tool without it being our basis of society. Also, capitalism is not self regulating. That's a bullshit myth created by elite monopolists. Unchecked capitalism leads to monopolies and monopolies are the antithesis of capitalism. We used to know that. We used to bust monopolies. We need to learn when and when not to use capitalism. Certain things need to be monopolies. Like transportation and the power grid. Since healthy competition cannot prosper we cannot make them capitalistic. We already need to recognize that capitalism is a tool for us to use. It's ok to break capitalism in special circumstances for the greater good, because the good of the people is more important than perpetuating capitalism. I think abolishing it leads to apathy and inefficiency, but worshipping it leads to inhumanity, and we're not even worshipping it properly because again, monopolies are not capitalism. Like all things in life it's about balance.

[-] lauha@lemmy.one 19 points 1 year ago

I cannot comment on communism as there has not been a true communism in the world yet, but dictatorships sure have been bad.

[-] symcal@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

No system be it either communism or capitalism can be applied 100%

If we compare today's capitalism it's only fair that we compare it to real world application of communism.

As a Pole that was raised in a country freshly out of this system I can only tell you that you would have to be mentally insane to ever consider communism and expect it to work even half as well is it should on paper.

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[-] mister_monster@monero.town 12 points 1 year ago

You know you guys are a meme out here in the real world, right?

[-] hark@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

Said the crypto bro from monero.town

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[-] littlecolt@lemm.ee 46 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Every day when I get off work and I go to a local gas station, I see them throw away a bunch of prepared food that passed shelf life. This is a chain, so hundreds of locations do this every day. Tons of food per year, tossed in the trash because it sat in the heat box too long.

Imagine how many people could eat that food. It makes me upset.

[-] 4lan@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago

I worked at a Dunkin for a summer and they had us throwing away two large trash bags full of food every night. It had to be 50lbs of food.

I started giving donuts to teenagers and an elderly Asian man that was always ecstatic to get a big bag of donuts and bagels. I didn't have a car to transport it to a shelter, and this was in a rich area. It was disgusting

[-] littlecolt@lemm.ee 23 points 1 year ago

I once tried to buy a rye loaf from a local grocery store and the cashier couldn't ring it up because it was one day expired. I said it looked fine to me, but she said the system won't even let her.

So I said okay, don't ring it up, just give it to me.

Another guy jumped in and took it, said no, it had to be thrown away.

They were literally not allowed to give me trash I was willing to pay for.

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[-] Siegfried@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago

It's already non profitable to feed people, that's why it's said that hunger is a problem of logistics and not problem of production capacity.

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[-] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 29 points 1 year ago
[-] disinterested_a_hole@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Are you the least bit aware of what caused the egg shortage? There was a super virulent strain of avian influenza (bird flu) that has the potential to infect wild birds and to jump to mammals. You know, like people. The same thing triggered the pandemic in 1918 that killed anywhere from 1% - 5% of the world population.

So to avoid that happening again, they had to destroy (slaughter) millions and millions of egg laying hens, which yes, caused a shortage of eggs relative to normal.

https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/chart-gallery/gallery/chart-detail/?chartId=105576

There are real issues that need to be addressed with capitalism and workers rights. This isn't one of them and you hurt the real arguments by not educating yourself.

[-] ZzyzxRoad@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago

I think the "send profits soaring...700 percent" was the point there.

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[-] Espiovvv@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago

Under communism, food isn't produced.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Under capitalism, food is wasted, food that burned a lot of fossil fuels to produce. Capitalism is destroying the biosphere.

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[-] disinterested_a_hole@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Except that's not really true. Western nations donate millions of tons of wheat and other food to poor nations and those hit by drought and other natural disasters.

https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/1-millionth-ton-american-wheat-relief-yemen/

[-] wanderer@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

In order to do that, they first have to buy the food from the corporations that are producing the food.

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[-] Kes 15 points 1 year ago

Food production is one of the very few things the US government has been handling well. We give out tens of billions in subsidies to farmers every year to artificially inflate the food supply and have a nationwide SNAP program to help low income families afford food. As a result, we produce far more food than we actually need and far more than we would in a free market, allowing the US to be a major exporter of food globally and ensuring we have enough redundancy built into our food supply that the US will be the last country to starve in a famine

[-] Hypersapien@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Then why are there food deserts in the US?

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[-] samus12345@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago
[-] Skoobie@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Bobby's been thinking the deep thoughts ever since Hank stranded him on Mars for disrespecting propane.

[-] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Because Bobby Hill is a based commie. Why did you think Hank was always yelling?

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[-] SCB@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Thats just "under the concept of having any amount of people not be farmers"

People were paying for food long before capitalism existed.

[-] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

It's capitalism vs government programs that can feed the starving, not capitalism vs anything else. That was an era before the modern state. We're talking about with today's systems, not with systems that are no longer relevant.

Also, self sustaining communities shared food with their own at numerous points in history. People were giving food to eachother for the common good long before Karl Marx.

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[-] Dekthro@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago
[-] sunbytes@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Who is Bobby? That's Dr Arlen, the most powerful being in the universe.

[-] Agent641@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

That boy aint right

[-] Schlubbins@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

It feels like most posts talking about "capitalism" are just talking about society as a whole.

Farmers don't work for free.

[-] littlecolt@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago

Absolutely, and we subsidize them to help with that.

[-] 4lan@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Exactly, they get their hard earned dollars from government subsidies like a real American

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[-] vertigo3pc@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Automation can conquer scarcity and reduce the amount of labor needed. People starve because we don't take steps to ensure our man-made economy doesnt suffer even a single dollar loss.

[-] walnutwalrus@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

feeding people can be profitable though because then they can work (labor) to make more food

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[-] mister_monster@monero.town 8 points 1 year ago

Good, now find me an example of a famine in a capitalist system, because I can find you an example in every instance of every other system tried.

[-] eestileib 20 points 1 year ago

India under the Raj. Ireland under the UK.

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[-] sunbytes@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/global-food-crisis-10-countries-suffering-the-most-from-hunger/

Seeing as how most countries are capitalist, googling "what countries are experiencing famine?" is a good start.

Not seeing any communists (or socialists) on there.

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[-] gmtom@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

The Irish potato famine, the bengal famines, both under the rule of the UK, easily one of the most heavily capitalist countries at the time.

As well as Bangladesh, Biafra famine, Burma rice crisis, 1950 Canadian famine, Darfur famine, 1904 Spanish famine, 1878 Alaskan Famine, 1867 Swedish famine, 1816 European famine, 1811 Spanish famine, or the dozens of other massive famines in India that killed millions, or the dozen or so Austrian Galicia famines, or the dozen famines in pre communist China or the famines in pre communist Russia.

Anyone that actually believes famine is a problems that is unique to "communism" or doesn't exist in capitalism are either ignorant or just a troll.

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this post was submitted on 07 Aug 2023
1441 points (100.0% liked)

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