Accidental birth in a non Schengen country. What next? (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 months ago by sznowicki@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

23 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I’m on vacation in Türkiya and wonder: what happens when let’s say a pregnant woman goes on vacation and for whatever reason gives birth there.

How can she take the newborn back to her country? Need to prepare all the papers in the embassy or there’s some special procedure for such cases so the paper work can be done in a country she resides normally?

all 25 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[+] skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 49 points 2 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

[deleted]

[-] evasive_chimpanzee@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

This is especially weird because the Netherlands does not normally permit dual citizenship.

It seems like many (most?) countries don't like/recognize dual citizenship. The way it ends up working is that each country doesn't have the power to tell the other country that someone isn't a citizen. Each country just enforces it's own citizenship within it's borders. If you had US/Netherlands citizenship, and use a Dutch passport to try to enter the US, you will probably get yelled at by customs if they realize that you are a US citizen. They can't stop you from entering the US but they can hold you for a while and pester you.

If you have a US citizenship but live in another country, most of your income will be exempt from US taxes (unless you are a millionaire, in which case you probably aren't paying many taxes anyway).

A similar thing happens with countries that have mandatory military or civil service; you can be required to travel back to serve.

[-] LowtierComputer@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

The US actually requires that you pay taxes to the US based on your income in the foreign country unless they approve of you being exempt.

[-] evasive_chimpanzee@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

The first $120k is exempt, though, so unless you are bringing almost $1/4 million a year, the majority is not taxed.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/foreign-earned-income-exclusion

There's also tax treaties that can make things more convoluted.

[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago

The Netherlands is especially anal about dual Citizenship. When you gain dutch citizenship, you must give up all others, and the when you gain other citizenship, you must give up the Dutch one.

The only way to be a Dutch dual citizen is to be from a place that won't let you give up citizenship (Turkey is famous for it here), or to be born to parents with different citizenships. (Or to get grandfathered in from before the laws got this strict)

[-] Sluyter548@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

I think you also get to keep it if you get citizenship through marriage

[-] sznowicki@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

This is what I know for a regular residents outside their home country. Did exactly this with my son. And also know it took us months to get him a passport so we could travel abroad. Must be a nightmare to have prolonged vacation from a week to few months.

[-] Nikls94@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Same with my country. Here kids get the citizenship of their parents - if one is let’s say Brasilian and one is Japanese, the kid is both and has to decide once 18 y/o or get the Austrian citizenship. If this kid is born in America, it has 3 citizenships, since by American law every person born within their borders is American.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

Depends on the citizenship rules of the particular countries involved (jus sanguinis vs. jus soli and details thereof).

If a mother from a jus sanguinis country gives birth in a jus soli country the kid might have dual citizenship. In the opposite situation, the kid might theoretically be born stateless, although I'm pretty sure actual nationality laws make exceptions to prevent that in practice.

[-] rand_alpha19@moist.catsweat.com 6 points 2 months ago

For reference:

Jus sanguinis: citizenship based on parentage
Jus soli: citizenship based on location

[-] evasive_chimpanzee@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

I think most jus soli countries also have jus sanguinis

[-] philpo@feddit.org 12 points 2 months ago

No biggie.

Hopefully the mother is insured with a proper assistance company,for them that's actually daily business. I had multiple calls when we were tasked with flying home a mom and preterm babies or two. One with neither mom and dad knowing beforehand a pregnancy existed.(that was kind of funny, though,as both had a medical background and were pretty cool about it)

From the document side of things for the industrial nations and the more developed destinations it is usually also no problem - first a local certificate of the birth is required,the closest embassy/consulate is contacted and emergency travel documents are created. As the old children's passport have been phased out by virtually all countries are regular provisionary passport is granted (that is not printed abroad but filled out by the embassy/consulate) and you are ready to go.

Only intermittent stops/layovers can be a problem sometimes, especially in some countries (US....) so with a professional assistance company one takes care to avoid these. Furthermore some countries do not trust birth certificates from some countries (e.g. due to a high number of surrogate motherhoods) and may demand further proof of the motherhood - e.g. medical records from antenatal care back home or a medical certificate of a recent birth by one of the embassies trusted doctors. But these problems can usually be solved easily.

[-] dizzy@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago

Looking up the terms “jus soli” and “jus sanguinis” might be of interest to you. Basically it’s different for different countries.

[-] sznowicki@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

All Schengen countries are blood based citizenship, so no matter what’s the case in Turkey the kid got a mothers citizenship the moment it’s born.

[-] Ziggurat@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 months ago

Babies can get a passport from day 1. Bring the local birth certificate to the consulate and get a passport. It may even be possible to get an emergency one (but I doubt many mother and kids are deemed able to travel internationally within the first 1-2 weeks)

[-] sznowicki@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

That depends on a country. For Polish consulate it takes few days just to convert the local certificate to Polish one and get PESEL. Then and only then they order a passport that’s being printed in Poland.

Emergency passport would do here tho. Still I’d expect few days at minimum to talk to all those people.

[-] Nemo@midwest.social 3 points 2 months ago

IIRC the mother needs her own proof of citizenship and proof of birth for the infant.

[-] sznowicki@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

So you can cross the border with a proof of birth only? No special agreement with the inbound country?

[-] andrewta@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

This is a really good question. Today I learned something.

[-] Nemo@midwest.social 2 points 2 months ago

She'll need to work with the home country to get baby issued appropriate citizenship and identity documents, but just to travel home? Birth cert and mother's docs should be enough.

this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2024

49 points (100.0% liked)

Asklemmy

43893 readers

684 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy 🔍

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

Open-ended question
Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

Lemmyverse: community search
sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
!lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 5 years ago

MODERATORS