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submitted 2 years ago by alyaza@beehaw.org to c/technology@beehaw.org

hey everyone. if you want to post links or discuss the Reddit blackout, its aftermath, and what's happening going forward, please localize it to this thread in order to keep things tidy! thanks! we'll see if we need to cycle the thread again before the end of this week, but i don't know that we'll need to

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[-] PelicanPersuader@beehaw.org 57 points 2 years ago

Troubling update from the Reddit admins. They are planning to remove mods from any subs that decide to stay private and hand them over to scabs. This goes back on their previous statements that subs had a right to protest and go private. Mods of one large community have already been contacted by the admins and told that "if you decide to close your community going forward, our Code of Conduct team will reach out with next steps". Which is a fresh take on "nice kneecaps, shame if something happened to them".

[-] alyaza@beehaw.org 18 points 2 years ago

privately, i've kind of wondered whether Reddit does even care if all of its subreddits are moderated horribly, and if it doesn't whether that renders anything short of taking your ball and going home moot

[-] PelicanPersuader@beehaw.org 21 points 2 years ago

They're shooting themselves in the foot with this stance. Handing over some very popular subreddits to the most aggressive, dissenting voices in a community who have no experience running that particular subreddit is a recipe for disaster. A hostile takeover is not going to set the new mods in a good light from the get-go, alienating them from the groups they're supposed to be running and creating an adversarial relationship. This will not turn out the way they're hoping.

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[-] Uniquitous@lemmy.one 14 points 2 years ago

Stevie Wonder coulda seen that coming.

[-] PokestarFan@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago

I'm honestly not even surprised about this anymore

[-] PelicanPersuader@beehaw.org 52 points 2 years ago

According to a screenshot shared in the modcoord discord, there's already a facist trying to take over /r/aww. The user is a former T_D mod, a sub which was actively involved in the January 6 riots and known for its misconduct across Reddit. These are the people that spez wants to empower.

[-] talik@feddit.de 10 points 2 years ago

that was my worry as well. Reddit is going to shit incredibly fast. Boot the mods and this is what we will get—a new, sitewide alt-right pipeline.

Let's see the outcome.

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[-] mizmoose@beehaw.org 49 points 2 years ago

Redditinc.com's fact(oid)s about the API changes.

Includes such BS as

100,000+ active communities

Technically true. But it's estimated that between 1/3 and 1/2 are NSFW. That is, the subs they don't want shown at their (mythical) IPO.

Supporting these apps is not free for Reddit; they incur both infrastructure and significant opportunity costs.

Technically true. But so does the official app, and web browsers. API calls are not some sort of special magic that causes extra wear on the systems. If the users never had the third party apps they'd be using something else, causing the same traffic and usage - or using nothing at all.

Reddit needs to be a self-sustaining business and to do that, we can no longer subsidize commercial entities that require large-scale data use from our API.

Again, third party apps are no more of a drain on data use than anything else. It's been proven, but Spez keeps pushing this lie.

Many other platforms have chosen to stop supporting apps like these altogether.

Objection! Facts not in evidence.

more than 98% of apps do not pay and will continue to access the Data API for free so long as apps are not monetized [...].

Emphasis mine. This is the real story.

Our pricing is based on usage levels comparable to our own costs

Either this is an outright lie or Spez is admitting that the official Reddit app is an inefficient, data monching, piece of garbage.

We're working to improve the mobile mod experience

Spez has been promising rainbows for years but all we ever get is poop. Or just the smell of poop. That the mobile apps were released without proper moderator tools tells you what he thinks of moderators.

We have a unique system of checks and balances, and we respect the communities right to protest.

Clearly a lie, given that Spez is going to change the rules to force out moderators who choose to follow their sub's wishes to protest.

r/nottheonion is asking users to vote, including a fun option that encourages people to take Tuesdays off

The "fun option" is an official means of joining the protest. Can he stop lying for 10 seconds?

We conducted an accessibility audit with an external consultant and have been working on improving accessibility on the site and in our apps.

Yes, much smarter than actually TALKING TO YOUR OWN USERS AND SEEING WHAT THEY WANT. Oh, they want what you refuse to do? Gee, what a surprise!

Nothing says ableism more than telling people with disabilities that they have no agency in how or if they get accommodations. (Sadly, the ADA does not apply to Reddit as a website.)

In summary, Spez needs to be fired. Preferably out of a cannon, into the sun.

[-] reric88@beehaw.org 11 points 2 years ago

Yes, but if you fire a spez from a canon into the sun, but no one can see him enter the sun, then does he actually get harmed? No one knows, especially if he never returns!

[-] deephurting@beehaw.org 11 points 2 years ago

Do it at night, show some mercy.

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[-] open_share1739@beehaw.org 10 points 2 years ago

Could you elaborate on how and why the ADA doesn’t apply to Reddit as a website? I’ve been wondering about this ever since Spez admitted the official app isn’t accessible and they seemingly have no plans to make it so.

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[-] Helium@kbin.social 39 points 2 years ago

Just wondering how long it takes til Reddit strips mods and forcibly reopens certain protesting subs

[-] nyankas@feddit.de 24 points 2 years ago

I would honestly love to see that. It would make their situation so much worse. They rely on people moderating subs voluntarily. They don't have the manpower to do it themselves. The subs would probably get flooded with spam and NSFW content. And if there's one thing advertisers hate more than the current blackout, it's their ads being displayed between questionable porn.

So if reddit really did this, I wouldn't count it as a loss for the protesters. Instead, I would go get some popcorn.

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[-] WillOfTheWest@beehaw.org 9 points 2 years ago

All according to plan, I fear. They’d ideally have all subreddits under the management of their cadre of “power mods”

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[-] sourcerer@fosstodon.org 39 points 2 years ago

@alyaza
I stopped using reddit, don't want to participate in this crime. There's high possibility that reddit will not change direction, it's better give a chance to alternatives and learn something new.

[-] dingus@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The people who refuse to learn something new and stay on reddit, like the people who jumped ship from Twitter to BlueSky instead of Mastodon, are exactly the kind of dim-bulbs the corporate suite want. They're more concerned with usability than freedom from corporate influence. They're more than happy to lose general autonomy and have corporations dictating how they interact with the world because, and let me emphasize this, they are too fucking lazy and pathetic to learn to do anything on their own. They are god damned babies looking for someone to hold their hand through life.

Boo Boo Bear speaking truth to power.

[-] terath@kbin.social 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

One could say that the people supporting mastodon with rhetoric like yours are too fucking lazy and pathetic to bother building a system with good UX. The choice is not in fact, "freedom" or "usability." It's very easy to have both, but mastodon supporters don't seem to care. You are not owed anything, and no most people will not bother with some janky software.

If you want to change the world on a lager scale, do better, don't blame others.

[-] dingus@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

too fucking lazy and pathetic to bother building a system with good UX

do better, don’t blame others.

You are not owed anything.

Make up your mind. You're not owed a "good UX" from people who do this for you for free. Sorry you need hand holding to figure this shit out.

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[-] trashhalo@beehaw.org 33 points 2 years ago

https://mastodon.social/@robotdeathsquad/110543755195398954

Every time you hear the Reddit CEO talking about how they need to become profitable, remember they raised $250m and then spent the last couple years building this: https://nft.reddit.com

[-] pbjamm@beehaw.org 12 points 2 years ago

What.The.Fuck.

Sorry. I am at a loss for words.

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[-] pe1uca@lemmy.pe1uca.dev 28 points 2 years ago

I created this addon for Firefox to redirect all reddit pages to archive.org.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/reddit-to-wayback-machine/

(I'd need to update to MV3 to port it to chrome, and I don't know yet how have this functionality without webRequest)

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[-] briongloid@aussie.zone 27 points 2 years ago
[-] trashhalo@beehaw.org 25 points 2 years ago
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[-] 0xCAFE@feddit.de 25 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The Verge: Full Interview: Reddit CEO Steve Huffman Isn’t Backing Down

TL;DR He is doubling down without really answering the important questions. Not why the deadline is so short (they've been talking about API changes forever), not if there could be a more reasonable pricing (=no) amd he doesn't acknowlwdge there's any value for Reddit from 3P apps.

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[-] DarkWasp@beehaw.org 22 points 2 years ago

Something I’ve seen pointed out is that if Reddit ultimately does shift to a more “democratic” model of voting mods in and out, that could easily be abused by bot farms or for nefarious purposes. Everything about the future direction the site is heading sounds bleak and barely what it once was.

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[-] marco@beehaw.org 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

And so, it begins https://old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/14aeq5j/new_admin_post_if_a_moderator_team_unanimously/

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/reddit-protest-blackout-ceo-steve-huffman-moderators-rcna89544

Reddit CEO slams protest leaders, saying he'll change rules that favor ‘landed gentry’

Reddit CEO Steve Huffman said Thursday that he wants to bring an end to a user-led protest that has made large parts of the influential website inaccessible this week. Huffman said in an interview that he plans to institute rules changes that would allow Reddit users to vote out moderators who have overseen the protest, comparing them to a “landed gentry.”

The protest took down thousands of message boards, known as subreddits, starting Monday, and some communities say they plan to continue the action indefinitely. The action has been led by Reddit’s unpaid, volunteer moderators, who have a high level of control over how their subreddits are run. Participating communities went “private,” making them unviewable even to members. The protesters oppose changes that will most likely cut off their ability to access Reddit through third-party apps, and their action has hobbled much of the site.

Huffman, also a Reddit co-founder, said he plans to pursue changes to Reddit’s moderator removal policy to allow ordinary users to vote moderators out more easily if their decisions aren’t popular. He said the new system would be more democratic and allow a wider set of people to hold moderators accountable.

Reddit’s current policy says moderators may be removed by higher-ranking moderators or by Reddit itself for inactivity or violations of Reddit-wide rules. They may also remove themselves. Many have held their positions for years.

“If you’re a politician or a business owner, you are accountable to your constituents. So a politician needs to be elected, and a business owner can be fired by its shareholders,” he said.

“And I think, on Reddit, the analogy is closer to the landed gentry: The people who get there first get to stay there and pass it down to their descendants, and that is not democratic.”

Moderators have argued that the high level of control over their communities is well-deserved because of the hours of free labor they’ve put into making and enforcing rules on their subreddits. Any plan to reduce their influence might result in another backlash.

Huffman, who co-founded Reddit 18 years ago this month, said he believes the leaders of the protest may have had popular support when it started Monday but have lost most of it since.

[-] 4bh1j47@beehaw.org 20 points 2 years ago

Can users vote out the CEO?

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[-] GoodEye8@lemm.ee 16 points 2 years ago

Interesting point about the future of Reddit in that article:

Huffman said, however, that he’d like some form of revenue-sharing.

“I would like subreddits to be able to be businesses if they choose,” he said, adding that’s “another conversation, but I think that’s the next frontier of Reddit.”

The long-term goal is monetization of subreddits. I'm glad I won't be there to see that happen.

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[-] marco@beehaw.org 16 points 2 years ago

If anything, the mods are indentured servants who toil on Lord Huffmans plots for free. Landed gentry, my ass.

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[-] hyperlink2236@feddit.it 20 points 2 years ago

This time I feel some optimism, it looks like the fediverse have a chance

[-] mabd@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago

My curiosity about kbin has become much greater than my desire to go back to reddit which is really weird. Definitely NOT what I had in mind, but I'll take it!

[-] Melody@lemmy.one 20 points 2 years ago

Judging by the newsprint from today; it feels like spez is still lost in his own delusion.

Right now he's at the bargaining stage; trying to find out if he can weasel his way out of this shit. Fuck him. He dug his own career's grave there. I've already established a community here on lemmy.

[-] SemioticStandard@beehaw.org 19 points 2 years ago

If they want their subs back so badly, let them take them. They can deal with moderation (or finding any decent mods at all) on their own.

Good luck with that, Reddit admins. lol.

[-] Can_Utility@beehaw.org 16 points 2 years ago

I never stopped using RSS. I follow many sites and blogs using The Old Reader in my desktop browser, with Reeder piggybacking off its OPML file on my phone and iPad.

TOR was designed specifically with compatibility with Google Reader in mind and shares many of the old keyboard shortcuts. It also has rudimentary social features that are in no way in-your-face (good thing, too, because I never really saw the point of them).

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[-] Swimmerman96@beehaw.org 15 points 2 years ago

https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/16/23763661/reddit-rif-is-fun-developer-ceo-steve-huffman

RIF developer pushing back on Huffman's claims that RIF didn't want to work with Reddit by releasing emails.

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[-] esty@lemmy.ca 14 points 2 years ago

Reddit says they're not against replacing mods of blacked out subs. It's so over for them https://www.macrumors.com/2023/06/15/reddit-threatens-to-remove-subreddit-moderators/

[-] deephurting@beehaw.org 19 points 2 years ago

u/Taytay_Is_God says they've done just that, they were the sole mod of r/tumblr and have been relieved of duties.

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[-] briongloid@aussie.zone 14 points 2 years ago

Reddit users continue their blackout protest against the platform's new pricing plan, which will force several popular third-party apps to shut down or pay up starting July 1. While some subreddits have reopened, moderators of r/aww, r/videos, and r/music have kept their forums closed, holding out for more movement from Reddit's executives.

Over 300 other subreddits are still private, and moderators are polling their users to gauge interest before joining the indefinite shutdowns. CEO Steve Huffman's leaked memo, which warned employees not to sport a Reddit logo in public, has been criticized for "trivializing" the concerns of moderators and volunteers who maintain much of the platform.

source: tldrdaily.news

[-] SgtSilverLining 30 points 2 years ago
[-] tenkuucastle@kbin.tenkuu.social 20 points 2 years ago

It does say “over 300” so I guess technically correct, if misleading

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[-] PelicanPersuader@beehaw.org 13 points 2 years ago
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[-] comicallycluttered@beehaw.org 12 points 2 years ago

Welp.

Looks like a lot of mods are caving.

The excuse: "if the mods didn't open the sub, they'll replace them with shills". 'Kay. And now that we know these mods will do what the admins ask when their precious power is threatened?

Well, I guess sabotage is valid approach, so I give the mods who are doing that at least a bit of credit.

/r/pics is making a stand in its own weird way.

/r/Steam just caved without much of a fight, if their sticky is anything to go by. While the mods aren't doing anything, it does seem like there's a bit of a user revolt where a few people are just posting pictures of literal water vapor (ie. "steam").

/r/piracy mods seemed to give them enough of an issue that the admins de-modded the top mod and forced the sub open, but the mods seems to be taking the approach of "only sticking around to give you the coordinates to our new island".

Honestly, though, it's kind of hilarious that reddit considers /r/piracy of all subs to be integral to the site. How many times have they tried to shut it down now?

Everyone on that sub should just spam Nintendo stuff. Like, nothing else. Watching reddit piss off Nintendo and getting C&Ds from them would be oddly cathartic.

One of two things happens if people do that: A) the mods trying to "save" it have to actually keep it restricted to prevent getting DMCAs (lol, the irony), or B) admins just nuke the sub. Either are a win, IMO. Seems like they're giving their users enough time to migrate and they're probably going to jump ship soon.

[-] dirtmayor@beehaw.org 12 points 2 years ago
[-] rknuu@beehaw.org 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)
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[-] dirtmayor@beehaw.org 11 points 2 years ago
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[-] jinno@kbin.social 10 points 2 years ago

Rest of the week? No.

The answer is until they lower to a more reasonable price and work with Apollo and RIF (at the very least) so that they can keep their apps running while transitioning their users to a new pricing structure that will allow them to not be bankrupted in the short term because of the price adjustment.

[-] veaviticus@lemmy.one 10 points 2 years ago

It's just amazing really. Had they rolled out a reasonable rated plan, and maybe even a discount to highly known apps, and even set a "the price will go up each 6 months for the next 2 years till we reach this higher, but still reasonable price"... All the apps would have added a subscription model for like $0.99 a month and none of us would have really complained.

Like, honestly most of us would have paid and maybe grumbled slightly but said "that's the cost of maintaining this huge community, and I get more than $0.99 in value from it" and just kept shit posting on Reddit all day.

If they wanted to block AI models, limit the API keys to only well known apps or those that are manually verified to be not-an-AI by reddit admins.

It's amazing how dumb a corporation can be sometimes (or has some nefarious endgame ala Twitter)

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[-] Nicktar@beehaw.org 10 points 2 years ago

German it magazine iX has an interview with the mods of r/de. I don't know if this was mentioned here before...

Interview (German)

Short summary: the mods of the large German communities see a huge issue with reddit not recognizing content creators and mods work and there seems to be growing support for an ongoing blackout or so they say.

[-] melismae@beehaw.org 10 points 2 years ago

https://www.platformer.news/p/reddit-doubles-down

According to Casey Newton, "It seems also notable that Reddit is moving to centralize control of its ecosystem at the precise time that the rest of industry has begun to explore more federated models. When even Meta is preparing to launch a decentralized social network, it’s fair to ask whether Reddit has misread the moment."

My take: Reddit's API/IPO debacle puts them on the wrong side of history, as they double down on an outdated and unpopular social media model. Times are changing. What do you think?

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this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2023
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