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‘Not acceptable in a democracy’: UN expert condemns lengthy Just Stop Oil sentences (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 8 months ago by piefedderatedd@piefed.social to c/climate@slrpnk.net

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[-] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 24 points 8 months ago

People in here are arguing about whether the government should be able to allow or disallow protests, i.e. "legal" or "illegal" protests.

I think Denmark has a good middle ground solution to this: Protests must be declared to the police ahead of time, so they know it is happening. Note that this is not an application or an ask for permission! You always have permission, you only have to make the police aware that you are protesting, so they can monitor it and ensure it follows law and order and doesn't turn violent.

[-] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

France works that way as well.

[-] Uruanna@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

On paper, but the city will still say "Friday's not good for us, how about next never?" Then the protest still happens but now the police can say the protest was announced too late and is violent while setting a corn field on fire with their tear gas. Which just happened this weekend.

[-] thrawn@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

Should be like, two days or more’s warning is the only requirement, they can’t say no. In Denmark, it’s 24 hours but they can prevent it.

[-] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

Well, there's the theory and the practice...

[-] Prandom_returns@lemm.ee 15 points 8 months ago

Guys, I'm planning to cause a traffic jam, and you all are invited.

Oh wait, that's just normal traffic. Oh well, see y'all in jail.

[-] parpol@programming.dev 8 points 8 months ago

Just Stop Oil are the people that were blocking traffic of normal everyday citizens.

Their sentences weren't lengthy enough in my opinion.

[-] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 65 points 8 months ago

[-] parpol@programming.dev 4 points 8 months ago

Am I a liberal? I expect protests to have permission beforehand just like they need in Sweden where I am from. They would have been charged there too.

[-] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 28 points 8 months ago

Government sanctioned protest ain't no protest lol. If you're protesting the government action by asking their permission, might as well write them angry letter so they can throw it in the bin quicker.

[-] parpol@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago

You can't justify breaking the law by claiming it is for the greater good, and blocking traffic is breaking the law. Whether you agree with it or not, this is how the world works. Same applies everywhere. If you have a problem with how a kindergarten works, you don't waltz in there and start blocking toddlers from entering. If you hate the food at a restaurant you don't spit in everyone elses plates. Not only is it illegal, it is detrimental to the message you're trying to spread. Find a different method to make your voice heard instead of being probably the most hated type of illegal protester in the world.

[-] superb 27 points 8 months ago

Actually I can justify breaking a law that I find unjust ❤️

[-] archon@sh.itjust.works 7 points 8 months ago

most hated type of illegal protester in the world.

Fucking lol, real first world problems over here.

You're saying "it is what it is", but what you're actually saying is this is how it should be while others are arguing it should not.

Change the law and your argument evaporates.

[-] Zorque@lemmy.world 27 points 8 months ago

That only works if a government wants to let you protest. And if people will even pay attention if you're protesting in a "citizen approved protesting location".

Kind of pointless to protest if no one pays attention to you.

[-] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 22 points 8 months ago

For the convenience of our constituents, protest hours are 10:00-14:00 every second Thursday of the month.
Citizens may apply for a protest permit at their local post office.
In the event that potential protestors have different local post offices, each protestor must apply at all applicable post offices, indicating their post code of origin on the back of page 27 (BLUE INK ONLY).
Duplicate applications will be denied.
Please state clearly the reason for the proposed protest in the application in 25 words or less.
Applications take approximately 6-8 weeks per word to process. Successful applicants will be notified by post no later than 12 April of the following year.
Approved protests must be addressed to the brick wall behind the library and are confined to the space enclosed by the chain link fence.
If multiple approved protests occur on the same day, please form a queue, tallest to shortest. The group with the most amount of members in the top quartile will be granted the protest space for the day. Others will need to re-apply after a 60-day probationary period.
Chants will be kept to a conversational speaking volume.
For the safety of the public, no food or drink will be allowed.
Infractions of the rules as outlined in the application will result in the locking of the fence gate for a period of no less than 6 days.
Further punishments are determined at the sole discretion of the Peaceable Protest Committee. Sentences start at 5 years with no maximum. Appeals may be made after the sentence has been served.

[-] parpol@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago

You're justifying breaking the law just because you think the cause is good.

I promise you that this kind of protest has the exact opposite effect. Look at the comment section of any youtube video showing protests like this, and you'll see what kind of radicalization this brings.

Get a permit, and protest in a safe way where you can still be seen, but not cause inconvenience or danger. If you think the government would deny you such a permit, then I congratulate you in making news headlines and successfully getting the entire population on your side.

[-] Zorque@lemmy.world 22 points 8 months ago

I think if you're looking at a YouTube comment section for a rational point of view about anything, you've already lost the plot.

[-] poVoq@slrpnk.net 5 points 8 months ago

The science largely disagrees with you; but as usual there are no clear cut answers on such complex topics.

[-] mindlesscrollyparrot@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 8 months ago

On Armistice Day, EDL protesters marched towards the Cenotaph (without permission) and launched fireworks that were intended to hit people and did strike policemen in the face. Let's see if they get 5 years.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/11/world/far-right-protestors-disrupt-armistice-day-london/index.html

[-] YtA4QCam2A9j7EfTgHrH@infosec.pub 36 points 8 months ago

Booo. This is a bad opinion. You should feel bad.

[-] parpol@programming.dev 7 points 8 months ago

It is the opinion everyone except Just Stop Oil has.

[-] mrpants@midwest.social 33 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Lol you're delusional if you think that most people would want others imprisoned for years for conspiring to cause traffic or even to cause it.

[-] parpol@programming.dev 5 points 8 months ago

Go to youtube. Search "just stop oil protests". Open up the comment section. Come back here and let me know how it went.

[-] Sas@beehaw.org 17 points 8 months ago

YouTube comments are almost always a cesspool of bad opinions so I'd rather not.

[-] archon@sh.itjust.works 12 points 8 months ago

This has to be the worst way to inform yourself you could possibly choose. Very telling.

[-] ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 8 months ago

I think Just Stop Oil are largely a bunch of morons, but I still think a five year prison sentence for conspiracy to peacefully protest is abhorrent.

[-] Ctri@beehaw.org 34 points 8 months ago

Peaceful protest should not be a cause for government punishment at all, this sentence is absolutely insane and should be revoked at the earliest convenience.

The new government should restore our right to protest policies without fear of imprisonment.

[-] parpol@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago

There is nothing peaceful about blocking traffic.

It is first off illegal to protest on a busy road unless you've acquired a permit and have a way to redirect traffic. What they were doing were illegal protests.

Second, it doesn't matter what your message is. If you block traffic, you are the biggest cunt there is, and you are actively harming your own cause by showing the world what kind of people you are. If you've seen the videos, and read the comments, you know that 99% of the people are cheering when angry drivers pull the protesters by their hair out of the streets.

[-] mranachi@aussie.zone 17 points 8 months ago

The entitlement of some people the moment they have a car. "Somebody took 20min of my time, they literally deserve 5 years in jail and to be assaulted in public.". You're sick, nothing your doing is important, sit in traffic and seeth. If you don't like it, take the train.

[-] riodoro1@lemmy.world 19 points 8 months ago

“I can’t go to my office job or to get more mayo from asda because those wankers are protesting the end of the world!? Death penalty to them!”

[-] apotheotic@beehaw.org 15 points 8 months ago

Do you think that their protest action should instead not inconvenience anyone so that it can continue to be ignored like all climate protests of that nature have been for decades?

[-] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 6 points 8 months ago

It is not acceptable anywhere. This "in a democracy" bit is just taking away blaim from dictator who do this kind of stuff all the time.

[-] lud@lemm.ee 12 points 8 months ago

No, the point of the sentence isn't to take away blame. It is to compare them to dictatorships. I.E. Add more blame

[-] NostraDavid@programming.dev 4 points 8 months ago

I still don't understand why JSO is bothering common folk with their protests, go block politicians - you know, the people who YOU want to make the treatise to stop the use of oil!

I agree with what they want (though it would've been nice if they had a plan how to slow down our oil use, but then again they're no experts on that), but I do think they're being dumb on how to achieve it. You don't see Union Strikers block off a highway to get what they want, they'll instead block off some plant where they work - now that makes sense! Go bother politicians.

[-] bane_killgrind@slrpnk.net 12 points 8 months ago

The problem with "they should have a plan" is that we have viable plans and nobody that's currently benefiting from oil will take any steps towards implementing them.

this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2024

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