Assuming proper training and ammunition, they're perfectly capable for hunting small to medium game such as rabbits, coyotes, tyrants, wild hogs, and whitetail deer.
I don't think some people know how much damage a pack of wild hogs can cause to crops and farmland in short order. If it wasn't going to be an AR-15 keeping them off the farm it would be another intermediate or higher caliber semi-automatic rifle that accepts standard magazines. Everyone want's to laugh at that excuse until the farmer has a bad season and has to sell his land to Bill Gates or Chinese investors, they don't exactly make large margins.
The magazine capacity is an issue though. The standard 30 round mag is far to large for any realistic hunting purposes (you can also get up to 100 round drum mags). While you can hunt with an AR-15, it's not the best rifle for the task.
I live in Canada and the government is in the process of banning semi-automatic centre fire rifles capable of holding more than 5 rounds. Given that 3D printers exist, this pretty much bans all rifles with interchangeable mags. I'm a gun owner on a rural property and I think that's a reasonable compromise. I can still own a decent bolt action hunting rifle and a semi-automatic rim fire rifle with no mag limit.
It does suck for people who's rifles are getting banned though.
You've obviously never been surrounded by a pack of coyotes or hogs.
.223 is also an excellent caliber for that size game.
Anecdote time!
I was once semi-surrounded by coyotes while hiking in some back country with a friend.
I did not have anything except my camping knives and a very small axe for splitting kindling.
My buddy had a compact 9mm in his waistband.
Honestly, I can say an AR would not have made me feel safer. A larger capacity on my sidearm, on the other hand, would. The AR is just too bulky to move quickly in close quarters.
Luckily a single round to the trailside was enough to scare them off, since yelling and throwing things wasn't. We then ran/sprinted a few miles down the trail toward the vehicle before we even considered slowing down.
Not many situations in which either one is something I'm desiring though, and while I'm not a fan of limiting people, I can't say I've ever needed 30rds at once. Honestly, I buy 10rd mags just because they fit very nicely in some cases I already had, and the 30rds don't.
Rambling anecdotes over, have a nice day!
Anecdote time! I went to infantry basic training and we were told over and over again, if you have to draw your sidearm, you’re dead. The AR absolutely is not too bulky for close quarters and I would feel much better with one on my hand than anything else. The US army has murdered a lot of people with M4 rifles in CQC. (My politics don’t align with a stereotype of a former infantryman. Please do not assume too much)
In either situation, with adrenaline, good luck getting shots on target.
Hmm, I don’t understand the downvotes but okay lmao I’m sorry that the AR platform is actually fine in close quarters?
Coyotes? Literally just shout at them. They're scavengers not fighters.
In the late Winter/early spring they start getting a bit braver and start moving further into the cow pastures. That's when we have to cull the pack to keep them away from the cattle.
While you can hunt with an AR-15, it’s not the best rifle for the task.
It's not the best rifle for any task. But it's a good enough rifle for most tasks, and between real AR-15s and the various clones they are cheap, in common calibers, and have accessories widely available.
Which is why it's the most common rifle in the US by a fair margin.
It being the most common rifle in the US by a fair margin is in turn why it's so often used in public mass shootings, as those are usually done with weapons of convenience rather than something bought for purpose. Likely also why the guy who shot Trump used one.
If a public mass shooter wanted the best gun for the job, they'd get something closer to a PS-90 (the civilian version of the P-90 which is a military rifle designed for urban combat).
If a public mass shooter wanted the best gun for the job, they’d get something closer to a PS-90 (the civilian version of the P-90 which is a military rifle designed for urban combat).
You're neglecting the fact that mass shooters are murderers, so close combat isn't their thing - and the best gun for the job has already been shown - ar15-style rifles - 14!! - with drum mags and bump stocks:
On October 1, 2017, a mass shooting occurred when 64-year-old Stephen Paddock opened fire on the crowd attending the Route 91 Harvest music festival on the Las Vegas Strip in Nevada from his 32nd-floor suites in the Mandalay Bay hotel. He fired more than 1,000 rounds, killing 60 people[a] and wounding at least 413. The ensuing panic brought the total number of injured to approximately 867. About an hour later, he was found dead in his room from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
5 rounds for a pack of dogs or pigs??? Ok buddy 🙄
In the arctic standard bear protection is a five shot bolt action 30.06. You'd load them with three FMJs to scare the bear away and two hollow points in case that didn't work.
The truth about predators is they aren't interested in dying for their meals. Prove to them that approaching will be deadly to them and they won't approach. You don't have to kill the entire pack, you just have to kill or wound one, or even just blast some rocks in their path.
You'd really want something bigger for hogs and deer. Never known anyone who hunts deer with .223. You really want one of options in thirty caliber.
While I'm sure someone hunts rabbits with a rifle you'd really use a shotgun or a really small rifle for them.
.223 is a good coyote round though. There are better coyote rounds available and there are better coyote rifles in .223.
People joke about the shooter "missing", but at a few hundred feet away, a 2" miss is clearly within the influence of wind.
Trump got extremely lucky. I don't think this was the result of a poor shot.
He fired 8 shots. It was poor shooting.
Most people using an AR buy cheapo 115 grain FMJ to shoot from their $600 AR. Cheap ammo from a cheap AR will group at 5-6 inches shooting with a bipod from a bench with a minute between shots with no wind at that range.
Throw in wind, stress, sub-optimal support, and rapid fire and it's a very difficult shot.
Which is good and bad. Good in that assassinations should fail. Bad in that it means this asshole was shooting up a crowd.
Are you grouping that at 100 yards? Because I think your barrel is screwed up if that's true. 2-3 inches on a mass market AR is common from a controlled setup. Of course most people are not as accurate as their gun so if they're shooting then yeah it can be wild.
i thought it was 2 or 3 and the rest of the shots heard are the secret service snipers
Yes. 23 hours ago the news reported 8 shots. Now they're reporting 2-4.
What's that? I don't think Trump can 'ear you.
Too soon?
Not soon enough.
I mean I think I'd say it was more the result of poor preparation than anything. I think most places are saying he had like, 3 shots or somewhere around there, and apparently his rifle had no optic on it at all, which is kind of an insane idea at that distance. Which I think also maybe lends credence to the idea that this was just some impulse decision rather than a prepared kind of thing. I don't think it's that hard of a shot to make in general, even given the single opportunity that you're going to be working with, I've hit soda cans with .22s at similar ranges. You barely have to take into account windage or holdover and I haven't seen any evidence of heavy wind on the day of, really.
So, I dunno, I think it's probably just an idiot kid killing himself in like, some elaborate suicide by cop or something. or just a dumb groyper, jury's still out.
Ar-15s are potentially ok hunting rifles for large birds and small mammals although there are better options out there.
The main argument I've heard for an AR besides the larp thing is that it's easy to find compatible accessories because it's a popular "open source" common platform.
But honestly any hunter who is serious about hunting with .223 probably has a better gun that they hunt with.
Its a good thing the second amendment doesn't just include a clause for hunting! People often forget it says
"A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."
Indeed it doesn't protect hunting or self defence at all. Only the collective defense.
For the record I would rather 45 lose and continue to drag the GOP down than have a quick death.
I'd rather he rots in a state jail for the rest of his life, and give him the same standard of care as every other inmate. No special treatment. If he needs to be put in solitary "for his own protection" then so be it. It's the system people like him loves to protect.
To be clear, I think the US treatment of prisoners is inhumane and bordering on criminal (and all too often crossing said border) and the whole penal system needs drastic change and made entirely nonprofit, and the constitution needs another Ammendment because the 13th was a mistake.
But that's not the world we live in, and the people who crafted this world should be forced to live in it.
That would be so nice. Wish we focused on rehabilitation instead of retaliation in our criminal justice system. Its such an ass backwards system.
I love seeing prison photos from other countries that show how well prisoners can be treated while still being in prison. Countries with extremely low recidivism.
And there are plenty of people I know who would see that and balk, because "that's being too soft"
I've had people insist that stronger punishment over rehabilitation is what you need, and ignore my bringing up that there's decades and decades of data that shows otherwise.
At best, the harsh punishments serve as a deterrent to other people doing similar things that might result in similar punishment, but that just creates new and sneaker crimes and criminals. It's better to rehabilitate, help people turn their poor choices around, and eliminate the cause of the problems that led to the crime in the first place.
But that's "too much work" so might as well not even try, right? As we all know, the light bulb famously was invented on the first couple tries.
I would prefer Trump to have a long and miserable life in prison. Preferably in an underground cell in SuperMax somewhere. For his own protection of course.
They are good hunting rifles for feral hogs actually, 30 round mags included.
Plus, banning certain magazine sizes or particular models of rifle isn't really going to fix anything, but things like universal background checks would probably help.
And they’re apparently good for hunting the elusive unarmed school children in the middle of class. 30 round mags included!
So would any number of other rifles, handguns, and/or shotguns. Focusing on a single rifle is pointless.
TBH, I would not trust a .223 to take down a hog intent on fucking me up. If feral hogs were a threat, I'd want a semi-auto .308 or similar larger more powerful round.
hunting human rifles.
let's be honest, it was designed as a lightweight emergency carbine made of space aged materials. 60 years later we're arguing if the founding fathers meant bump stocks and cmags when they said well regulated militia.
