Please don't defederate. Just have it reserved for actually intentionally malicious or negligent instances.
My gut feeling is that defederation should be done as little as possible. I'm quite new to all this, but to me, it feels like it should be user preference instead of admin/mod preference. I have no clue whether that is even possible though. Perhaps there should be more filters than just Subscribed, Local and All to alleviate certain issues.
One problem atm is that a user can't block by instance, just by community or individual users. It seems a lot of people are requesting this ability though so hopefully it gets added in the future.
Lets avoid defederating. I am not to sure why beehaw.org defederated Lemmy.world, i understand it's not a final decision but more of a quick mitigation to deal with de difficulty related to the reddit exodus. Right?
But surely we hope that this level of users is permanent? I think it'll be in place until lemmy has better moderation tools, which could be quite some time. It has the benefit that it is Open Source though so anyone can help.
the level of users is hopefully permanent, but the lack of moderation to adequately deal with it, both from beehaw and lemmy.world, is not
its also a cultural problem, at the moment the culture of the fediverse is still settling and folks are poking and prodding and seeing how much they can get away with
The problem is mainly that open registration allows quick ban evasion, making it very hard to remove bad actors that are using instances with open registration (without admin approval).
But admin approval just slows it down right? Like how is the admin going to know you aren't a bad actor?
It also really slows down the sign-up process which will cripple the growth of the Fediverse.
Yeah, it's a pity, this is the worst time for defederation, when the userbase is seeing a boom in growth.
Yeah, it seems some are happy to burn down the whole thing if it means they can rule over the ashes.
I think we need to avoid defederating as well, should only be used for the most problematic, habitual cases of malicious intent imo.
We need to let this grow and solidify a bit more before we start to really get in the weeds as far as our identity as a community.
I'm not using beehaw and probably never will. I don't want to be in a "safe space" as they put it. That said, I totally understand that some people want that sort of community, it's their decision, and thanks to federation anyone who disagrees can just leave. If you're complaining about them defederating from you - you're probably part of the reason they did.
That said, it would be really helpful to have some sort of icon next to posts/comments that are defederated from your instance, just so you don't waste your time responding to them when they can't see it.
What happened? Why are they making this move? I think it's a bad idea to start defederating, especially this early.
Edit: How effective or practical, for lemmy.world in the future, would a voting system be for defederating? In case it comes to that for us.
Cause it seems like a very dramatic approach, with only a few people making the decision to drop a ton of content yknow.
Not sure if it's possible even, I know it comes down to our admin, but they seem pretty cool. I dunno just thinking aloud.
They said they couldn't deal with the level of abuse and spam that came from lemmy.world users. They have a much more restrictive content policy and smaller, centralised moderation team than most other instances which exacerbated the problem.
What's dumb is that if someone wanted to troll them they could just make an account on any number of smaller instances that they federate with. I mean, eventually they will have to be completely siloed off to prevent outside trolling.
Yeah, I suspect they will move to a whitelist the moment that functionality becomes available. Or just defederate entirely from everything and become a walled garden.
Tbh, that's kinda hard to believe. I have seen zero malicious activity in my 4 days here. Maybe their standards are just higher than mine, not sure that's a good thing in this case but whatever. Damn that sucks, beehaw had some good stuff.
Same, I've found the attitude really positive here. It reminds me of early Reddit in like 2008.
From what I saw on their post, it seems there are bad faith actors registering in lemmy.world just to harass beehaw.org.
Sigh.
Who tf comes online just to troll "beehaw" some obscure instance on an obscure platform? That's crazy to me lol.
They might also remove the block again in the future when moderation tools have improved and/or lemmy.world does a better job at vetting users, and then it would work better to have never blocked them.
Honestly I think this is an interesting real-world experiment in the entire federation paradigm. It's going to happen again and again, there's no escaping it. How does the ecosystem work when two large instances can't communicate directly? We're going to find out.
Go ahead and defederate them, they're the ones that want to be closed off in their little centralised liberal safe zone.
I don't think not wanting fascists and trolls galore makes it a liberal safe zone, they just don't want the truly wild west. There's a lot of people out here now which weren't just a month ago.
It's their decision and you should respect that. I also don't agree with the defederation and the rest of their policies but you can just not use it. No need to turn this into a political conflict.
Them wanting to be an echo chamber doesn't mean we should do that too
So we'll still see posts from beehaw users on other instances that beehaw still federates with?
Will we be able to interact with the above posts (vote / comment)? I'm guessing yes, because the posts would be hosted on those 3rd party instances still federating with beeehaw, not beehaw.
If I inderstand correctly, I'd be in favor of keeping the federation, which in short means "keep interaction with beehaw users through other instances", even if we lost sync and interaction with "communities / posts in those communities. hosted by beehaw"
Yeah, we can see them and interact with them. But the beehaw users won't see our comments, the other users on the instance will. So it could be confusing if you were expecting a reply from a beehaw user - as they won't even be able to see your reply.
I'm not sure how voting works, I guess our votes would count? As the copy is held on the instance? But maybe beehaw users wouldn't see them.
Work with the other instances first. Try to find a compromise. This should be done as a very, very last resort. And that’s not the impression I’m getting at all. Just a pain in the ass for users, and barely a hurdle for troll, which I’ve not seen much of on the first place.
This whole defederation situation seems like putting the power in the hands of the wrong people.
Users should choose what they want to see/interact with. Maybe subs/mods. Not entire servers imho.
If certain subs on beehaw want to restrict access, fine because users choose to participate. If users want to restrict themselves or control their own experience, fine because it only impacts them. But when it's done at a server level you have given too much power to people that aren't part of your community.
Or maybe I'm wrong.. I'm new
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