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submitted 4 months ago by girlfreddy@lemmy.ca to c/world@lemmy.world

Last November, Israel’s official social media accounts shared a photo of a smiling Israeli soldier proudly holding a rainbow flag amid the rubble in Gaza, where over 10,000 Palestinians – mostly women and children – had been killed in the weeks following October 7.

Written upon the multi-coloured flag – an iconic, decades-old symbol of LGBTQ+ pride – in English, Arabic and Hebrew, were the words “In The Name Of Love.”

The image quickly went viral. The soldier, a 31-year-old gay man, explained to the media that the Israeli military was “the only army in the Middle East that protects democratic values… it is the only army that allows LGBT people the freedom to be who they are, and therefore I fully believe in our goal.”

Meanwhile, on Instagram, Israel’s account described the image as an “attempt to raise the first pride flag in Gaza as a call for peace and freedom.”

But for many LGBTQ+ activists, and those struggling for Palestinian liberation, the incident represented an almost perfect example of “pinkwashing” – a term that refers to a state or organization’s attempts to use LGBTQ+ rights and symbols to distract or deflect attention from its harmful practices.

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[-] cygnus@lemmy.ca 18 points 4 months ago

I sure wish queer people were left out of this war that has essentially nothing to do with them. It's a caricature of intersectionalism. Here's another absurd example: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/stjohns-pride-palestine-action-yyt-1.7253192

St. John's Pride names pro-Palestine advocacy group as grand marshals for annual parade

On July 21, Palestine Action YYT will lead the annual parade, which will wind its way through downtown St. John's and end at Bannerman Park for the Pride in the Park event.

The group has protested throughout the city for months, with downtown marches downtown calling for a ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas war, vigils for those who have died in the conflict, and tent encampments and the occupation of Memorial University buildings to call on administration to divest from companies that are funding the war.

[-] Deceptichum@quokk.au 29 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Pride being used to help disadvantaged victims is fine.

Pride being used to make genocide progressive is vile.

[-] cygnus@lemmy.ca 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Pride being used to help disadvantaged victims is fine.

The real disadvantaged victims are queer people in Palestine (and especially Gaza), where being gay or trans is persecuted to a degree unlike nearly every other place in the world. Not only are they oppressed by Israel, but they're also oppressed by their own people. Here's a good report on the matter (PDF) https://cdn.sida.se/app/uploads/2021/05/07094749/rights-of-lgbt-persons-palestine.pdf

Human rights should come before anything else, whether it's borders or religion or whatever. The morally consistent position is to advocate for Palestinian freedom that also includes freedom for all Palestinians to be themselves.

[-] thesporkeffect@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Sorry, i misread your comment

[-] Manifish_Destiny@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

100%, not the same thing.

[-] febra@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The same Israel that blackmails queer Palestinian civilians to become informants.

The same Israel with politicians sitting in the current government and leading parties that agree that "LGBTQ" is the biggest threat to Israel.

The same Israel that still doesn't allow same sex marriage.

The same Israel that claims that killing civilians is okay because they might be homophobic.

As a queer dude, not in my name. Fuck Israel. I don't give two craps about their pinkwashing.

[-] Leylineofthevoid@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Like Andrei S. Markovits once said, some criticisim of Israel is really "damned if you do, and damned if you don't". When Israel would discriminate against LGBTQ like other countries in the middle east, it would be used against them. But if it does not, it is still used against Israel. What do you want Israel to do? Discriminate against LGBTQ or not? You're just against Israel per se, let's be honest. I think this is really unfair criticism.

[-] roboto@feddit.org 17 points 4 months ago

I don’t know who that guy is but blackmailing LBTQ Palestinians into spying on their friends and family is really not a great achievement next to genociding them along with every other Palestinian.

But if we’re doing quotes I’d like to quote the queer Jews who got kicked out of the White House pride party recently:

As queer Jews with close LGBTQ family and friends in Israel, we know how precarious their rights are, too. There is no civil marriage, trans rights are consistently attacked and undermined by high-ranking government officials, and Israeli ministers actively spew hate against pride parades, leading to physical violence. LGBTQ Palestinians aren't being 'saved' by Israel. Their identities and their personal lives are exploited by Israeli security services to force them into being informants on their families and communities, putting them at risk.

[-] Leylineofthevoid@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Like I implied, obviously not everything is well in Israel. But generally, the term "pink washing" is not useful. Also the war in gaza is not a genocide, but that's a different topic, I guess.

Edit: Andrei S. Markovits https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Markovits

Edit 2: This is no appeal to authority, the argument is good.

[-] roboto@feddit.org 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

If we’re at genocide denial I don’t know what else to talk about.

Edit: I can look the guy up, my point is just because someone said something it doesn’t mean it’s necessarily relevant let alone true.

[-] Leylineofthevoid@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 4 months ago

Words are cheap nowadays. Read the Israeli answer to the South African claim in The Hague. The intent, which is important in the definition of genocide, is completly lacking. There are some war crimes, but not genocide, at least not at the moment.

Just one more thing: The IDF warns civilians before bombing. Which other army in the world does that? (To be fair: according to the BBC there are some mistakes in the information.)

[-] Krzd@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

Wtf? The IDF regularly bombs places they told people to flee to???

[-] BeBa@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Imagine for a moment that you’re one of the many wonderful colours in the LGBT rainbow. You’re also a soldier and you’re fighting people who hate you for both your religion and your sexuality. You’re in a place where traditionally folks with your sexuality/gender identity would be systematically executed. Would you not also wear a rainbow pin and take a photo or two to commemorate that moment? To me it feels significant enough

[-] roboto@feddit.org 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Yeah I’d be raising the rainbow flag over the bunch of kids I just executed for creating some new Zionist Lebensraum. Maybe let’s do a pride parade on the Netzarim corridor.

This whole post is exactly about what you’re trying to do with your pink washing and genocide denial.

[-] airportline@lemmy.ml 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

What do you want Israel to do? Discriminate against LGBTQ or not?

What we don't want Israel to do is use LGBTQ people as propaganda, especially against Palestinians. It's unproductive, and it disgusts me everytime someone uses "Hamas would throw you off a roof" as a cheap gotcha.

[-] Dasus@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

But if it does not, it is still used against Israel. What do you want Israel to do?

To stop the genocide they're committing. I thought this was pretty clear from all the protests?

I think this is really unfair criticism.

I think it's generally agreed that slaughtering children and raping and torturing people is wrong. Perhaps you were raised differently?

[-] VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 months ago

I hope hamas can be defeated and the people of Palestine can be free from their oppression and propaganda. I was brought up being told it's the job of the strong to protect the weak and we can't fool ourselves into being tolerant to the intolerant. Its hard making difficult choices especially against enemies who use human shields and lies but the IDF are making the area a better place so history will respect them regardless of what agents and fools say now.

[-] roboto@feddit.org 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

How exactly does the IDF make the Gaza Strip a better place through making it inhabitable and genociding its population?

Apart from that the IDF is using human shields and lies on a daily basis. What is this?

[-] VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago

Yes I imagine it is confusing if that's your perspective, maybe view news from outside your extremeist bubble and other people will start making sense to you.

[-] Leylineofthevoid@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

whataboutismSo Hamas is not using human shields and hospitals as bases?

[-] girlfreddy@lemmy.ca 6 points 4 months ago
[-] Leylineofthevoid@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 4 months ago

I agree that this is whataboutism.

But all this being called names on Lemmy makes me a bit cynical. I honestly apologize and edit my post.

[-] HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Wow, this sure is some Rudyard Kipling “White Man’s Burden” bullshit.

this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2024
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