Used VPN for cheaper YouTube Premium? Congrats, your subscription has been canceled : technology

[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 168 points 4 months ago

Blows my mind that to this day, companies don't realize it's a service issue. Like it's straight up regressed. Adobe and Microsoft used to encourage piracy to help their bottom line. Now you have stupid PMs who realize they can get a good performance review by talking about how much money they'll make/save from doing stuff like this

[-] SnotFlickerman 119 points 4 months ago

They realize it's a service issue, they're trying to corner the market so that they don't have to care that it's a service issue.

YouTube pretty much has that market cornered. It would take a lot of capital to start up a viable competitor, especially one that didn't resort to ads and had some other kind of monetization scheme to support the sites existence and pay for all the storage servers.

[-] Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg 31 points 4 months ago

This really is not a service issue. This is not a privacy issue.

YouTube as a service is ... actually a great service, it pays creators well, it's fast, it has decades of content, and it has tons of features.

It's monetized with ads, you either watch those ads or you pay them. Using a VPN to get a lower price on the subscription is not a service issue, that's abuse of regional pricing, and no company would accept that.

[-] xavier666@lemm.ee 24 points 4 months ago

Using a VPN to get a lower price on the subscription is not a service issue, that’s abuse of regional pricing, and no company would accept that.

The internet's most beloved company, Steam, also bans people for abusing the store using VPNs. So as much as I hate Google, i find nothing wrong with this.

[-] A1kmm@lemmy.amxl.com 17 points 4 months ago

that’s abuse of regional pricing

More like regional pricing is an attempt to maximise value extraction from consumers to best exploit their near monopoly. The abuse is by Google, and savvy consumers are working around the abuse, and then getting hit by more abuse from Google.

Regional pricing is done as a way to create differential pricing - all businesses dream of extracting more money from wealthy customers, while still being able to make a profit on less wealthy ones rather than driving them away with high prices. They find various ways to differentiate between wealthy and less wealthy (for example, if you come from a country with a higher average income, if you are using a User-Agent or fingerprint as coming from an expensive phone, and so on), and charge the wealthy more.

However, you can be assured that they are charging the people they've identified as less wealthy (e.g. in a low average income region) more than their marginal cost. Since YouTube is primarily going to be driven by marginal rather than fixed costs (it is very bandwidth and server heavy), and there is no reason to expect users in high-income locations cost YouTube more, it is a safe assumption that the gap between the regional prices is all extra profit.

High profits are a result of lack of competition - in a competitive market, they wouldn't exist.

So all this comes full circle to Google exploiting a non-competitive market.

[-] Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

More like regional pricing is an attempt to maximise value extraction from consumers

And right there I'm done with your comment. Regional pricing is incredibly important, without it everyone pays the US or EU price and there is no service provided period.

However, you can be assured that they are charging the people they’ve identified as less wealthy (e.g. in a low average income region) more than their marginal cost. Since YouTube is primarily going to be driven by marginal rather than fixed costs (it is very bandwidth and server heavy), and there is no reason to expect users in high-income locations cost YouTube more, it is a safe assumption that the gap between the regional prices is all extra profit.

Even if true, that's not what this hoopla is about. It's about someone from say ... the US using a VPN to get Kenyan pricing. As another person said "The internet’s most beloved company, Steam, also bans people for abusing the store using VPNs."

Regional pricing is the only reason people in these countries even stand a chance at access to the service (because ultimately their costs might be a bit lower in these countries but not by much ... I would not be surprised if regional pricing is pretty much just above the break even mark). People in other countries abusing those slashed prices threatens the whole system.

This is people in "first world" countries trying to rig the system: https://www.reddit.com/r/youtube/comments/15hz5ys/found_country_that_works_to_get_youtube_premium/

Someone in Uzbekistan for instance would feel as the average US consumer would if a year of YouTube premium was $829.

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[-] Jericho_One@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago

You're getting down voted, but you are mostly correct.

I feel like the amount of ads and/or length is a little excess these days, though.

The thing is, Google isn't dumb. They've user tested this strategy and they know it results in higher revenue.

And the enshitification continues...for those that don't pay

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 16 points 4 months ago

You can pay to have less ad, but you're still also paying with your data. Bet pretty soon it will be pay and have ads, or pay more again. They have a captive market. They can extract and extract.

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[-] Sanctus@lemmy.world 105 points 4 months ago

Its funny how we cant use VPNs but companies will go to the country with the lowest wages to get workers.

[-] TooManyGames@lemmy.world 30 points 4 months ago

Companies are free to use labor from anywhere, but make sure we can't get their products from anywhere.

[-] hark@lemmy.world 75 points 4 months ago

I'd rather not use youtube than give them money for it or even sit through their intrusive ads. There are infinite ways to entertain myself.

[-] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 77 points 4 months ago

I mean... that is the point.

Pay for premium, watch ads, or don't watch at all. You and Google are both in agreement.

[-] SailorMoss@sh.itjust.works 30 points 4 months ago

Yeah, I’m not sure I agree that YouTube wants their platform to shrink. Even if you don’t watch ads you are still giving them your data which they can monetize.

Personally I would be willing to pay for YouTube premium but not under the current terms. 1. If I’m paying for the service they should no longer collect and sell my data. 2. Allow me to have a YouTube-only account not connected to other Google services and 3. The current pricing is a bit high.

They can offer these terms or I’ll continue to use them logged out with Adblock. Or they can continue to enshitify and eventually their platform will start to shrink which will make the data they sell to advertisers less valuable.

[-] BigFatNips@sh.itjust.works 21 points 4 months ago

Their platform won't shrink. You and I may care enough to stop using it (very skeptical personally tbh) but 99.9999999999999999999999 percent of people don't give a flying fuck and there's more users being born every day.

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[-] Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world 20 points 4 months ago

That'd be well and good if they didn't have a monopoly.

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[-] hark@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago

I specified intrusive ads. They could have non-intrusive ads, like a little banner or something. Instead they put up multiple video ads before and during videos. No thanks.

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[-] Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 47 points 4 months ago

If you pay for YouTube premium, you're a clown and you're only fueling the enshittification.

[-] macrocephalic@lemmy.world 16 points 4 months ago

If you watch ads instead of paying a modest fee to remove them then you're a clown. Companies do need to make money for the services they provide, I just disagree with the amount.

[-] derf82@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago

“Modest?” $14 a month? $5 would be modest. I literally pay less for whole as streaming services.

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[-] InternetUser2012@midwest.social 11 points 4 months ago

They make enough off of all my data they collect. I'm not paying them a cent for anything and I'm not watching a single ad. If you want to watch ads for shareholders, you are most definitely a clown.

[-] slimarev92@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Ads are bad (I agree).

Paying for things is bad.

Then what's left? YouTube should somehow be ad free and free of cost for the user forever and ever? Who's gonna pay for the enormous costs of operating the service?

People are going to start yelling at me about capitalism and enshitiffication. Both of which cause problems, but what do you propose here? Magic?

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[-] AProfessional@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago

Youtube might be the literal most valuable site in my life, up there with Wikipedia and search engines.

A large part of my payment also goes to the channels I view.

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[-] Eggyhead@kbin.run 45 points 4 months ago

I keep saying it. Privacy invasive, targeted advertising has got to be barely worth the cost of maintaining it. Why else is Google trying to put more ads in places, kill ad blockers on chrome, force expats out of subscriptions, and experiment with unskippable ads if not to try and invent some kind of additional value to advertisers out of nothing.

[-] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 36 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Because the investors/stockholders in the tech industry started tightening the belt and demanding profitability from these huge tech companies. What's happening at Google is happening everywhere: the avenues for extracting more profit from their apps or services are being scoured and taken advantage of. Prices going up, advertising increasing, free features removed, etc. Different strategies all around, but the pattern is clear.

YouTube has never been profitable, but Google was ok with letting the rest of the profits from its other divisions subsidize YouTube's losses so it could remain free. They did that to choke the market; no other company could handle the sheer scale of it while offering it for free. As long as Google ran YouTube for free with relatively few ads, no competition could ever possibly come to exist.

But because the shareholders are demanding profit now, and because Google itself is struggling on multiple fronts, the time to force YouTube into a profitable enterprise has come at last.

And this is what it looks like.

As for risking competition, at this point, I don't think they care anymore. Competition in the web service and software space seems to be a thing of the past. Users are intransigent, algorithms favor the oldest and most popular services, and content creators seem to be incapable of separating themselves from their abusive platforms.

I also have a theory that Google is using YouTube as a way of rallying all platforms and services to combat ad blockers more fiercely. If they can beat them on YouTube, other sites will dig their heels in. There's a long-term strategy here to nuke ad blocking permanently. That's what that web environment integrity shit was about, and you better believe that will be back with a new name.

[-] YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago

Enshittification

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[-] lickmygiggle@lemmy.world 43 points 4 months ago

I've never seen a company SO devoted to get me to not use their service. $2-$3 a month is worth not seeing ads in my mind. They've made their website SO user hostile and their prices are just too damned high to justify paying them - I can just go without.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 16 points 4 months ago

If I could get Youtube Premium for $2-3, I'd probably pay. I don't use it enough to justify spending $10 or whatever it is these days, so I block ads. If that stops working, I'll stop watching Youtube.

[-] vxx@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I would even pay the 11,99€, in fact I did in the past. Youtube's algorithms made me stop.

Spotify for example caters to my preferences. It took a bit to train it, but the weekly selection is spot on with lots of a variety, and they don't try to shove pop music or other mainstream stuff into my face.

YouTube tries to suckme into a shit hole of craziness at every turn. It tries to make people dumber.

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[-] Orfeluh@lemmy.world 43 points 4 months ago

You can use NewPipe or Tubular for Android

Also there is https://piped.video/trending for watching in browser and Revanced on Android

And for anyone using YouTube Music there is Desktop app for Linux,MacOS and Windows https://github.com/th-ch/youtube-music

[-] VerPoilu@sopuli.xyz 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

LibreTube is also a good one. Basically an app for piped

[-] MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 36 points 4 months ago

Is there an automated bot to archive channels from YouTube and upload them to Peertube?

[-] Takios@discuss.tchncs.de 40 points 4 months ago

If one does that, be prepared to defend yourself against the copyright infringement lawsuit that's coming your way eventually.

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[-] aramova@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago

There are repos on GitHub that pull the videos and metadata, not sure about posting to Peerhub, though if that's possible to post via an api you could probably script it easily enough. Likely a risk of other "issues" doing so, but I'm sure some datahoarders could chime in.

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[-] ThePantser@lemmy.world 26 points 4 months ago

So a person is not allowed to be part of their home country and get service and then move? What if their job stays the same and they don't make any extra? Evil google.

[-] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 25 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

They are perfectly free to do that. They just have to resubscribe from their new home country at the new rate. Just like with telephone service or cable tv. It's not like they will get in trouble or would be prevented from moving.

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[-] chiisana@lemmy.chiisana.net 12 points 4 months ago

Operation costs differently in different regions. Advertising spend differs in different regions. You’ve moved from a region with cheap operating expenses and no ad spend to another region with more expensive operating expenses and higher ad spend. Congratulations on your move, now the cost to provide you service is different, and you’d need to pay more to cover the operating expenses + expected margin.

Alternatively, procure a local credit card (I.e. the same one you used back home), billing address (i.e the last place back home), and always do everything through a VPN back home. Then you’re at least using services from where the operating expense reflects the pricing.

This is just business, and should be expected. Food is dirt cheap back in Asia, they’re more expensive here in North America. Like it or not, if I’m living here, I need to pay the prices here. If I don’t want to pay the prices here, I can move back to Asia.

[-] w3dd1e@lemm.ee 20 points 4 months ago

I realize they charge what people are willing to pay, but can someone explain to me why YouTube costs just a couple USD a month in some countries and almost $20 a month in the US?

Are operating costs cheaper in those countries? Are they taking a loss in those counties? Or are they just price gouging in the US?

[-] Mnemnosyne@sh.itjust.works 30 points 4 months ago

If they raise the prices in those countries they would make less money because volume of subscribers would go down enough for total income to decrease.

If they lowered the price in the US, they would make less money because the subscribers they would gain would not be enough to offset the reduced income from each.

That's it, it has nothing to do with operating costs or fairness, it's just a question of what price point they believe will make them the most money in a given market.

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[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago

Okay? Just shoot yourself in the foot then.

[-] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 15 points 4 months ago

Less reason to subscribe then!

[-] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

If you have an iPhone or iPad you don’t even need to use a VPN to get cheap Premium. Just make an new Apple ID with an Indian address, top it up by buying a digital Apple Card on Amazon.in and redeeming it to your Indian account in iTunes on a computer. Then on your iPad or iPhone go to your Apple ID in the settings, log out of Media and Purchases and login with the Indian account. Then you can buy Premium in the YouTube app with your Rupees, you don’t even need to change your YouTube account.

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[-] tabular@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

YouTube doesn't want your money.

[-] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 32 points 4 months ago

and other hilarious jokes you can tell yourself

[-] tabular@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

They want you to pay a higher price but since you have a choice of paying nothing then the message seems clear to me. You can see comedians on there for free, they tell real jokes.

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[-] disconnectikacio@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago

Use Smarttube instead on android tv and stbs Smarttube

For android phones, tablets: Tubular

In browser ublock blocks youtube ads, also invidious instances.

[-] Alpha71@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago

The only thing VPN's are good for anymore is hiding torrents. That's it.

[-] DarthBueller@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago

Also good for getting to pornhub.com if you live in one of the states they’ve blocked.

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