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[-] agitatedpotato@lemmy.world 87 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Im skeptical a fair bit of time about those congressional 'lefties' but this is true, for the most part they're doing what they can. What I do like most about them is when they show up outside of a legislative capacity, like showing up at strikes or going to meet unions. I think many people discount how important that boots on the ground work is. Imagine being a franchise owner of something trying to snuff out union efforts knowing you're gonna have US Lawmakers who agree with your workers physically there with the workers. You better come correctly in that situation.

[-] Sunforged@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Just want to point out that they only showed up in support of the current labor movement after immense pressure was put on them after failing to support the historic Amazon JFK8 union drive. AOC and politicians like her still have to pushed, sometimes hard, to do the right thing.

[-] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 8 points 1 year ago

They show an ability to learn from their mistakes, at a minimum. Can't be said for all.

[-] Sunforged@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Sorry man I just fundamentally disagree and feel like you are ignoring/undervaluing the role grassroots organizing plays. This is pure political pressure, not a reevaluation of policy.

I say this specifically because as soon as you give a politician the benefit of doubt and remove that political pressure they stop "learning from their mistakes".

[-] agitatedpotato@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Oh I agree with you and am biting my tongue to not talk about how disappointed people like them made me when it came to the railroad unions and strike in this thread simply because at the end of the day through mistake or other means nymag got it right that they do indeed do thing that have an impact.

[-] Sunforged@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Don't bite your tounge! These are not people to revere, they are there to represent their constituency and it's our responsibility to constantly push them to do so and righteously criticize them when they fail to act. Articles like this and bite your tounge comments are antithetical to a healthy democracy.

I don't give a shit if AOC cried when she voted to increase the military budget for apartheid Isreal. All that matters is she was a deciding vote and Palestinian people are dieing because of it.

[-] Yondu_the_Ravager@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

Good. I hope they achieve far more in the future, it would be a net benefit for everyone, even those who dislike them and their politics

[-] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

The greatest threat to conservatives is other conservatives. Unfortunately, they’re just too stupid to understand why.

[-] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Their own party treats them with more disdain than their supposed "opposition party."

AOC and the other actual left-wing minority making waves in a sea of right-wing neoliberals and righter-wing fascists is amazing. They can't win, the game is fully rigged and the institutions are fully captured by monied interests with political bribery legalized, but it's like watching Cap get up to face Thanos' army alone, it's inspiring.

Too bad no one, including most Americans, are on their left.

Because were too far into the sunk cost fallacy to reject ~~"free market"~~ rigged crony capitalism.

"We can't re-examine our core economic beliefs! We already gave the owners all the money, and they promised for half a century to whip their dicks out and urinate golden showers of prosperity on all of us!... any day now..."

[-] bleph@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago
[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

I read the article, and I agree with Freddie deBoer. This is just liberal apologetics. This is just the same arguments of things are getting better, just wait, blah, blah, blah. I’m old. It’s tired. Give me healthcare and change my mind.

[-] bleph@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

So until we get single payer healthcare, you won't be happy with any other policy wins and you'd rather burn all your political capital fighting us instead of uniting against the literal fascists?

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

The left, the real socialist left doesn’t have political capital. So there’s nothing to burn. Incremental policy is great to alleviate suffering, but ultimately is masturbatory. Fascism will eventually overcome America. This explains why. Waiting for real, substantial policy changes with climate change happening is denialism. We’re waiting for enough people to realize this so we can organize and fight for the future.

[-] bleph@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I found that argument very unconvincing.

I think the author's definition of fascism is nonsensical and ahistorical.

I agree that capitalism has the tendency to concentrate power (like every other social or political system ever in the history of humans), but the idea that we should just abandon the levers of power to the kind of people who want Donald Trump to be president is so insane to me.

The author even concedes that Donald Trump is uniquely bad but then bends over backwards trying to get back to his comfortable "both sides" narrative

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

I agree that it is insane to concede power to fascism. I have kids and will be voting for Biden for this reason. I’m aware that when full fascism comes, it will not be pretty. But I also understand that capitalism will eventually decay into fascism. So, I am sympathetic to those that want to do something outside the system of just voting. I’m not trying to change your mind. I’m just trying to make people understand the situation we’re in.

[-] bleph@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Well I'm glad I don't have to have the Cornel West argument here.

I think we agree that the whole Earth is in a dangerous and precarious situation and far too many people are still not acknowledging this?

Do you disagree that Biden has delivered more policy for the Left as a whole than any president since LBJ?

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Civil rights and the voter rights act were pretty big, so I don’t know. Biden has done more for the environment( he needs to do more) and that affects us all. I like Biden. I think he wants to do more. But he is beholden to the DNC and it’s corporate donors. When he gets his next term, expect him to do more.

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[-] bleph@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

So ... all capitalism is fascism; therefore "both sides are the same"; therefore reject incremental progress as illegitimate?

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Incremental progress is not illegitimate. It’s just never going to be enough to solve the problem that is capitalism. If it were, the New Deal would have fixed this system and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

[-] bleph@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Ok....so because the New Deal didn't... overthrow capitalism forever.... therefore working within the system is pointless?

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes 🙌 . Read Reform or Revolution by Rosa Luxemburg to understand why.

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[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

The article makes an argument exactly against this mentality.

[-] DarraignTheSane@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago

Isn't that just the progressive left? As far as I know we don't worship figureheads like the fascist right with their orange demigod.

[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

America’s “left” is pretty middle of the road if you compare the US to other first world nations.

Things like free affordable / free university education, universal healthcare, consumer protection, and decent unemployment insurance are not controversial elsewhere. But in the US the right wing claims these boring ass ideas, that the rest of the modern world has embraced, are radical.

If left wing idea were hot sauces, the GOP would think mayo was the Last Dab on Hot Ones.

[-] morphballganon@mtgzone.com 5 points 1 year ago

You can still respect and admire a figurehead without worshipping them. The difference is whether you bend definitions and rules to make exceptions of them when they deviate from expectations.

[-] wozomo@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I mean, the article linked is an AOC apologist quite literally bending “definitions and rules to make exceptions” for her after another columnist said she was "just a regular old Democrat now."

Branding the progressive left the “AOC Left” is also problematic and indicative of some hero worship on the author’s part.

[-] morphballganon@mtgzone.com 4 points 1 year ago

Naming a movement after a figurehead is not worship, it's just descriptive.

[-] wozomo@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It absolutely is hero worship any time someone is put on a pedestal and their flaws are ignored.

That’s what the author of the linked article has explicitly done. He waves away the fact that she consistently defers to Democratic Party leadership—except for occasional, “token gestures of resistance to solidify the illusion” that she’s a hard-line leftist—and then holds her up as the face of progressivism.

If that’s not hero worship idk what is.

Edit: spelling

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[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

Just as subservience breeds subjugation, so choosing between differing forms of exploitation can only result in continued exploitation. Being asked to choose between capitalism and fascism does not change the direction we are travelling in, it only marginally changes the route we are taking to get there.

[-] Cabrio@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

subservience breeds subjugation

I like that phrasing, goes well with 'civility breeds cowardice'.

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Can I ask where that quote is from? Or is it your own?

[-] Cabrio@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

My own, used often in the same context you use yours.

Civility breeds cowardice, when will people learn that their civility has been abused by those with hands on their throats and their wallets.

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

You have a gift for metaphorical speech 🎤

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[-] ArugulaZ@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago

She's the Obama of millennials, and will probably achieve the same political success. (Once the boomers preventing her ascension all die off.)

[-] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

It’s not the generation, it’s capitalism.

[-] blazera@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

so most of this article was excuses as to why progressives supposedly cant achieve anything.

[-] Pollo_Jack@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

They are the ultra minority. I imagine the report points to that.

[-] blazera@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

yeah probably gonna stay that way with them following a non-progressive party

[-] hypelightfly@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

The progressive caucus is 100/213 house Dems, it's the largest Democratic caucus in Congress now. It's been growing steadily.

[-] Zaktor@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Eh, it is, but it's not really 100 members strong. It means the word has good branding among Democrats, but members like Hakeem Jeffries aren't going to go to bat to fight against business or do anything that might make the larger party uncomfortable if it doesn't accommodate a progressive demand.

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[-] EnderWi99in@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

AOC is just another fucking populist. I do not understand how people fall for this shit over and over and over again.

[-] MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Populist:

a person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups. "he ran as a populist on an anticorruption platform"

I one hundred percent agree that AOC is a politician who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.

The critical difference between AOC and all of the right wing populists, is that she is concerned about people, and the preservation and expansion of human rights.

Right wing populists fire up their base by singling out minorities, and others that wield little to no social or political currency, and picking on them. Besides being morally repugnant at face value, the rhetoric and actual right wing policy never deliver tangible quality of life improvements to their base.

[-] deft@ttrpg.network 4 points 1 year ago

oh my god this is rhe dumbest thought ever. i hear this from "libertarian"(see:morons) side of America all the time and i just have to ask.. how the fuck do you come to this conclusion??

because she works to get voters? her policy goals and platform are clear, she represents extremely vocal voting blocks of liberals.

how is any of that a populist?? because she's trying to get voters? you don't know what a populist is

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this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2023
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