You can power a datacenter with solar panels and hydro, there is no green way to raise cattle.
There is absolutely no green way to extract all the material needed to build a datacenter.
There is plenty of green ways to raise cattle, however with these ways you can't feed everyone beef at almost every meals.
Just when I'm ready to give up on this hivemind, you go and make a sane comment.
Thanks, I'm glad to see I'm not only one.
There's a billion obese people in the world and tons of food get wasted every second. Same for hardware, there's disposable ecigs and they put leds on packages now. Unlimited greed and excess can hardly be green in every case scenario.
So you're agreeing with him, right?
I'm just pointing out that the level of exploitation you apply into something play the biggest role in making it green or not.
Yeah but that's what the guy you replied to was also saying, so you're agreeing with him right? (Genuinely asking because I'm not sure i understand you, no ill will, i hope you understand)
What was the green way to raise cattle (asking as a cheeseburger lover). I don't see any real way to do so. Seaweed in their feed is a good way to reduce methane production I've read but I've never raised cattle, just a few hens in the backyard for eggs. They roam around eat the bugs, weeds, grass, etc but are all around an easy pet(?) to have.
5 hens, no roosters, roughly 2 dozen eggs a week. Obviously supplement with feed but care is easy. Hose down the coop on the outside, and replace pine chips which last a decent bit, but they compost/biodegrade and with chicken shit on them I think using them for mulch in the garden should be good for the garden as well..... The chickens may eat your garden though haha
You can also not power a datacenter that's only for generating powerpoints and instead use the renewables to replace coal plants. Until all our necessities are covered by renewables and we've retired fossil fuels, we should be dialing back the conspicuous consumption.
You can absolutely raise cattle in an energy neutral (or potentially even energy positive) way. Cattle, in nature, consume grass. Most of the energy the cows get from the grass comes from solar energy. If they're being raised on land that is not being used for anything else and no equipment or anything else is used, the area gathers more energy than it costs.
However, this is generally not how cattle is raised. In order to meet the large demands of our society other methods are used that cost more energy. That doesn't mean it can't be done, but it won't be done on a large scale.
I'd rather switch the datacenters to green energy before trying to convince people to give up cheeseburgers.
We cannot afford to do one before the other. We're need to do both
To have any hope of meeting the central goal of the Paris Agreement, which is to limit global warming to 2°C or less, our carbon emissions must be reduced considerably, including those coming from agriculture. Clark et al. show that even if fossil fuel emissions were eliminated immediately, emissions from the global food system alone would make it impossible to limit warming to 1.5°C and difficult even to realize the 2°C target. Thus, major changes in how food is produced are needed if we want to meet the goals of the Paris Agreement.
(emphasis mine)
Are these datacenters doing scientific research or are they generating AI images and crypto? These things do not have equal value to society.
I'm not computer worker person but I'm pretty sure most are just serving websites and podcasts and music and all the shit we actually love about the Internet. Websites like this, and Netflix, Amazon (horrible company but so glad I can buy shit on my phone that shows up in an hour or 2) even ones like Plex, pirate Bay types, or foss things. But also crypto and AI bullshit, and probably sex trafficking and illegal dangerous goods . Modern luxuries we enjoy come with bullshit attached. It's all or nothing as far as I see.
Crypto and AI are crazy power intensive to run. Far beyond what it takes a streaming service to send you a video file and considering many people are choosing streaming over driving their gasoline fueled car to the theater, it's a net gain.
People giving up cheeseburgers and SUVs has been on the table for at least forty years. If you’re younger than forty, that’s your entire lifetime. It has never not been a problem. It has always been exacerbated by republiQans. It will not change, it will not go away, it will never be wrong. Give up cheeseburgers and SUVs or kill the planet with arrogance and greed.
Guess which one we’ve picked for forty years. G’head. Guess.
Or you could use the materials necessary to create that data center and its energy production infrastructure and instead shut down coal and petrol energy generators.
I don't see the connection?
Each sector has to do its part: Food production, Housing AND, yes, computation. AND, not XOR.
The AND part ain't happening
the skill issues of one sector doesn't allow fud about the others. call it unfair, but it was rigged from the beginning and giving up simply isn't an option (kinda rare characteristic for human conflicts).
tldr: so what
The post isn't saying 'give up' it's calling out the tech sector.
For... not being the energy sector? I'm not sure what people are getting at.
New technology uses energy! We still don't have 100% renewable energy everywhere! How dare they!
Each sector has to do its part
Me, doing my tiny part to help
Billionaire, undoing the efforts of millions of people
Energy prices surging. Agriculture collapsing. Heat waves killing thousands of people. Wars erupting over access to potable water.
Everyone doing their part.
I don't think downplaying our efforts is really helpful to our goals.
I also don't believe in the individual vs collective action blame dichotomy, because we should build pilitical infrastructure that fosters climate action and prevents emissions -> If we continue to put or keep lawmakers into power that empower the extreme rich, we disempower ourselves.
The subsequent economic system doesn't really matter, but the physical output matters.
I don’t think downplaying our efforts is really helpful to our goals
The math don't lie. When you're working on the scale of kilowatts and kilojoules, while your local hedge fund is operating on the scale of gigawatts and giga joules in the opposite direction, you've been outgunned by orders of magnitude.
Hedge funds consist of the labour of individuals in collectives (ie companies). Their products are only valuable because people keep their function and infrastructure intact (physically, legally).
Scales cannot be compared that way. I don't know the right term, but a better comparison might be between your efforts and the impact of a single 'buyer' of those hedge funds (or in the case of the extreme rich, the labour of a single worker that creates/created their power). Scales require similar spatial or material flow boundaries to be comparable.
Bro hit'em with them logic gates
So that's what we use AI for, solving the climate crisis!
Whew, glad we got that settled.
That would be funny if it weren’t so infuriatingly true. Don’t forget the layoffs generated by replacing people with the AI and the shittier customer service as they replace more people with ineffective automated systems that completely fail to be able to help you with your problem thereby dumping you in a 72 minute queue with everyone else that the system failed to help in order to talk to a real live person in a foreign country that will do little more than read you a script and then escalate your case to someone that will never call you back.
gasp
I’d have written more but I had to take a breath.
I swear the concept of doing two things at once is lost on nearly everyone on the internet who clutch their pearls.
The doomscrolling rot has infected their minds lol. They overemphasize the effects of climate change while ignoring everything good and green people are doing which is literally countering said climate change through mitigation and adaptation.
Yet... somehow they want to freeze the entirety of the world, magically build enough wind, solar, and hydro to power everything, then just... turn it back on again.
Yeah, literally everyone would do that if they could. It's not how reality works lol. Prepare for greenwashing comments for quoting studies that aren't from the 1970s!
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/03012021/five-aspects-climate-change-2020/
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/can-we-slow-or-even-reverse-global-warming
https://science.nasa.gov/climate-change/adaptation-mitigation/resources/
https://www.un.org/en/un75/climate-crisis-race-we-can-win
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/there-is-still-plenty-we-can-do-to-slow-climate-change/
Yet... somehow they want to freeze the entirety of the world, magically build enough wind, solar, and hydro to power everything, then just... turn it back on again.
No, we want billionaires to stop using so much fucking energy and making things disproportionately worse for everyone
They overemphasize the effects of climate change while ignoring everything good and green people are doing which is literally countering said climate change through mitigation and adaptation.
Overemphasizing the death of all life on the planet? Really? Wow that seems hard to do. Thank goodness the ‘good and green’ people are literally countering said destruction, so that everything’s good and nice again.
Although mitigation isn’t recovery it’s just making it less bad. And adaptation might be good but it’s also inevitable given the dying environment so I’m not sure we should credit that as a win.
I guess burning tons of fuel to crank out some bitcoins for Elmo is okley-fuckin-dokely! I was a grade A moron to doubt it!
Overemphasizing the death of all life on the planet?
Don't worry mate, life is resilient and will endure.
Humanity, not so much.
You're wrong about which part survives. If anything does, it's literally not even metaphorically humans and anything we deem important to us. Everything else is what gets the axe lol.
I went through 3 of your sources and they claim that we can, in fact, turn to renewable energies. And that we should! None said anything about it being impossible. I guess maybe one of the others will say something like that, but honestly I'm not working to make your point for you.
Everybody except your strawmen agree there's a transition period. The problem is that due to many interests, the powers that be are dragging their feet.
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