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submitted 6 months ago by neme@lemm.ee to c/programming@programming.dev
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[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 128 points 6 months ago

Oracle is a law firm with a large IT department.

They've been giving us shit because they "see downloads from our IP addresses". It's an absolute shake-down operation. They let anybody download their poisoned jvm for free and then tell your company that they now owe them a fortune.

[-] thesporkeffect@lemmy.world 40 points 6 months ago

It's time for corporate IT to block that download

[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 18 points 6 months ago

We'd love to but we do have some legitimate needs for it since Oracle software requires their jvm. It's a massive pain in the ass.

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[-] hydroptic@sopuli.xyz 125 points 6 months ago

It feels like actual innovation in all sectors has slowed to a crawl, and corporations – especially the ones run by MBA parasites – are concentrating more and more on just squeezing money out of people with various bullshit tactics, while at the same time thinning their workforce (naturally the MBAs are never under threat, though)

[-] Laser@feddit.de 65 points 6 months ago

Oracle was never really innovative on a technical level , it's first and foremost a company focused on selling licenses, and they're really innovative in that regard but if you fall for that as a company, I have no pity, this is their whole schtick.

Big companies in general are often rather conservative in nature while innovation happens on smaller scale and later expands.

The big problem is rather that a lot of innovation has been absorbed by the big companies via buyouts, especially when money was cheap to borrow. Innovation bears risk, buying an established solution and milking existing users much less so.

I don't think the users are without blame. A lot of people ignore the red flags when a solution is just convenient enough (we need the commercial support / this exactly covers our use case so we don't have to hire someone to adapt it / ...) and the vendor then cashes out when moving away from his solution would be really expensive.

I think there's still a lot of innovation lately, but a lot people are just looking for the next big thing that does everything it feels like.

[-] pixeltree 37 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I was a developer at Oracle. We got handed down sales goals. ??? It was a running joke in our org that oracle is a sales company and we just scramble to make what they're selling. When I left half our org had been laid off or left. Only got two raises in the 5 years I was there. Not worth.

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[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 17 points 6 months ago

We're at the end-times for western capitalism, where rent-seeking has become the primary driver of markets. It's happening all around us.

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[-] Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 105 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Lol brb gonna share this with the CFO and watch them go into a panic. Going to bet they'll freak out and by the end of 2024, no more Java for us.

This is the golden ticket I've been waiting for.

[-] kameecoding@lemmy.world 56 points 6 months ago

You will just switch to one of the openjdk implementations

[-] firelizzard@programming.dev 44 points 6 months ago

Obviously OpenJDK is superior to dealing with Oracle's bull. But even more superior (IMO) is simply not using Java. My life has been noticeably more pleasant since I started refusing to touch Java.

[-] kameecoding@lemmy.world 33 points 6 months ago

No offense but I have never seen a good developer complain about java.

[-] TheSambassador@lemmy.world 33 points 6 months ago

Java has a lot of advantages, but that's a crazy statement. I feel like literally everyone complains about basic stuff like public static void main, over reliance on factories and OOP, and just how much code you need to generate for some basic stuff. I'm not a Java hater, but I am glad I don't have to use it anymore.

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[-] Kissaki@programming.dev 15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Did you stop programming altogether? /s

I think you can potentially get stuck with worse when you stop Java.

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[-] Senseless@feddit.de 12 points 6 months ago
[-] Omgboom@lemmy.zip 75 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Oracle quoted us 30K because a small handful of our users needed to use a .jnlp application a couple times per year. It took me a couple of days but I got it working with Corretto and a program called OpenWebStart.

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[-] 4am@lemm.ee 71 points 6 months ago

One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison

[-] slazer2au@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago

Not going to lie, that is the only way I remember how to spell the company name now.

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[-] paf0@lemmy.world 69 points 6 months ago

This is how Oracle finally kills Java. I stopped working with Java many years ago and firmly believe that no developer should tie themselves to this fuckery. Find a new job before it's too late.

[-] masterplan79th@lemmy.world 68 points 6 months ago

This is only very indirectly related to Java as a whole. the reference implementation of the jvm is open source and managed by a coalition of companies under a GPL license, the OpenJDK.

Oracle has its own set of enhancements to the reference jvm that handle things like just-in-time compilation and garbage collection differently and have some additional flags that allow for more fine-grained tweaking of certain features.

There are many other companies that do the same.

Oracle only started doing this in 2019 so many companies who were running Java before this used the Oracle JVM out of convenience, even if they weren't going to use the tweaked parts. So everyone switched to another implementation, OpenJDK, Amazon Coretto, Eclipse J9 or some other available JRE/JDK.

In 2023 Oracle cracked down harder trying to get people to pay for licenses and changed their terms such that any company with even 1 employee using an Oracle JVM had to pay for every employee in the company. ridiculous I know.

This is just more news about Oracle's licensing crackdown and not about Java as a whole at all. Think of it more like the Unity licensing change and you're telling people to stop coding in C#.

[-] paf0@lemmy.world 16 points 6 months ago

I'm aware of the jdk alternatives and I will never use any of them because Oracle might some day decide that they're an IP violation like they did with Google's Android. I'm sure you'll tell me something about the licensing being different but that still will not matter because there is always the possibility that Oracle will change their mind and start messing with me for sport. The Java ecosystem is rotten from the top down because Oracle cannot be trusted.

[-] Zagorath@aussie.zone 46 points 6 months ago

Oracle might some day decide that they're an IP violation like they did with Google's Android

They lost that case. It went all the way to the US Supreme Court and set a binding precedent that an API re-implementation falls under the Fair Use doctrine. Maybe Oracle could try some excuse to say that OpenJDK is different enough from what Android did for that precedent to apply, but it would be a major uphill battle, and they know it.

[-] paf0@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago

It was expensive for Google and fighting them would destroy most companies. It's cheaper to avoid the ecosystem entirely.

[-] Zagorath@aussie.zone 18 points 6 months ago

It was expensive for Google, but they've done the hard work of establishing the precedent. It's much easier to fight when you have a strong binding precedent on your side.

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[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 17 points 6 months ago

OpenJDK is released under the GPL. That requires making any patents available for free to users.

They could theoretically change their mind and try some shit, but the GPL is hard to go "backsies" on.

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[-] BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago

Nah, my company still uses Java but an open source version (Eclipse Temurin). We haven't used Oracle Java in like 4 years.

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[-] kameecoding@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago

What an ignorant take, lmao

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[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 59 points 6 months ago

Oracle was one of the first companies on my personal shit-list. I feel validated.

I fucking knew it

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[-] BlackEco@lemmy.blackeco.com 52 points 6 months ago

Way to push Fortune 200 companies towards Azul, Adoptium, Correto and other alternative Java distributions, Oracle!

[-] proton_lynx@lemmy.world 48 points 6 months ago
[-] pohart@programming.dev 46 points 6 months ago

It's so easy to use openjdk. I think the lesson is stop using oracle

[-] IphtashuFitz@lemmy.world 12 points 6 months ago

My employer has a pretty large presence in AWS. We finished migrating to Amazon’s Corretto (based on openjdk) months ago. It was pretty painless given we already use Amazon’s Linux distros.

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[-] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Ever since I looked up "java download" and had to go through the horrible process on the Oracle site, I decided that they didn't want me to download Java so I should avoid it, and that has always proved to be a good decision

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[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 40 points 6 months ago

Is anyone else in this thread surprised people weren't using OpenJDK this whole time?

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 20 points 6 months ago

I'm actually not that shocked. Corporations make weird corporate decisions all the time because they feel as if they're getting the more professional version or something. They tend to view open source projects as either unprofessional or in some complicated way, actually illegal. Like it'll turn out that open source isn't allowed after all.

This is what happens when lawyers who don't actually know what they're talking about make recommendations. They don't know, so they always advise caution. Also they genuinely don't seem to know the difference between pirated software and open source.

[-] Avg@lemm.ee 13 points 6 months ago

The reason corporation are like that is because the responsibility is with the employee the decided to use the open source tool, when there is another company backing a product, there is someone to hold accountable. Also, there is a support number if shit hits the fan, and guarantee of support long term if the supplier is financial healthy.

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[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 37 points 6 months ago

But industry experts have pointed out that businesses with limited Java use would have to license the software per employee under the latest model

Yikes.

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[-] redcalcium@lemmy.institute 24 points 6 months ago

Why would anyone recommend their company to use Oracle stuff these days? Oracle should give kickbacks to people that recommend to use Oracle Database, Java, or VirtualBox in their company so they'll keep at it /s

[-] figjam@midwest.social 15 points 6 months ago

Oracle databases are not allowed to run in the Google cloud because of ceo drama

[-] tourist@lemmy.world 22 points 6 months ago

auditors gonna make absolute bank from bribes

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[-] zer0squar3d@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 6 months ago

We got the notice 2 months ago, I played dumb asking for their proof and they sent a 5 hits detected from ips we owned. Which was a joke.

https://openjdk.org/ for pre built binaries or for installers and jre, use: https://adoptopenjdk.net/releases.html

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[-] kaffiene@lemmy.world 20 points 6 months ago

I like Java but Oracle are pricks. Thank god for OpenJDK

[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 17 points 6 months ago

Oracle is a law firm disguised as a tech company

[-] Arghblarg@lemmy.ca 15 points 6 months ago

Can Oracle kill javascript as well, please? Please?

[-] BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca 18 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

JavaScript's real name is ECMAScript.

https://tc39.es/

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this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2024
332 points (100.0% liked)

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