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This new dating app will use facial recognition technology to exclude trans women (www.lgbtqnation.com)

submitted 5 months ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

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[-] Technus@lemmy.zip 229 points 5 months ago

Not once have I encountered a trans person on a dating app who wasn't 100% transparent about it. Some even asked me after matching, "you're aware that I'm trans, right?" just to be sure.

There's no logical reason to falsely pretend to be cis on a dating app to get matches. If someone's cool about it then it's better to know up front, right? And if they're not, then you probably don't want to waste your time on them.

The "justification" for this app is just bigotry, plain and simple. Fuck TERFs.

[-] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 58 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

This is a great point.

The technology that excludes transwomen from the app is the clear warning that the app is populated exclusively for transphobes. It's obviously wildly dangerous for a transwoman to be on the app.

The notion that AI is going to clock them is absurd AI hype. There's no reason to expect AI to be capable of this kind of discernment, and that assumes you even had a training set. Where in the absolute fuck would someone find a training set like that?

Edit: I didn't read the article. It seems it's a lesbian dating app. Well, probably less dangerous for transwomen, but still not technically sound.

[-] uriel238 45 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

We sometimes have to clarify that LGBT+ folk aren't particularly virtuous, just people, and like the rest of the population suffers from its own share of internal bigotry. The lesbian community is no exception.

Lesbians range from really rather bisexual to staunchly misandrist and there are different gatekeeping checkpoints, where some don't count trans women as lesbians to others that don't want to date a woman who's ever been with a man (which makes for a really small dating pool).

But this kind of exclusion is not about who these women date, rather who they allow into their community and are allowed to come to their potlucks and tea parties. Generally communities that are progressive and have experienced external oppression and dehumanization are glad to be welcoming and inclusive. Mostly. And I think this includes the lesbian community.

From my experience. I'll get to how that's tricky.

I've found the lesbian circles I've engaged with have been even more inclusive than the general LGBT+ community. They're actually really good about including bisexuals and trans women that are into women. However, this is partly due to the anthropic principle: Even though I'm enby I still have [M] on my state ID, look like a dude and have male parts, and have been completely forthright about this even in online circles (e.g. r/actuallesbians) where no-one would ever know I was really a cat. But this means that I don't get invites to circles that are more restrictive, since I'd be high on the no-admittance list.

But inclusive lesbians are not super fond of less inclusive ones, especially since human sexuality can change over time. The closet has multiple doors, and when your best friend who invites you to all the get-togethers is a women-only transphobe second-wave feminist (this was a thing), and suddenly you've been taking an interest in a special guy, you're going to keep your bi-curiosity hidden from your friend (or stop being friends). And as per the whole thing of coming out, the point of the LGBT+ community is being able to be who you are, and being accepted and validated.

So when I see a lesbians dating app that is intentionally looking to draw transphobes, it reminds me of those conservative dating apps to hook up men in the white power movement with trad-wife minded women, which is to say it's good they're over there and not trying to date people over here that they're ultimately going to disappoint and hurt.

[-] eestileib@sh.itjust.works 21 points 5 months ago

I've been excluded more often for being bi than being trans in lesbian circles.

[-] Anamnesis@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago

Good point. I don't want to date trans people, but I wouldn't want to use an app that purposely excluded them. I'd rather occasionally have to go "oh sorry thanks for telling me" than restrict my dating pool to bigots.

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[-] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 22 points 5 months ago

Not once have I encountered a trans person on a dating app who wasn’t 100% transparent about it.

...that you know of. not defending bigots or bullying, but that statement doesn't make sense.

[-] Silentiea 4 points 5 months ago

I mean, isn't that also just true of anyone you've interacted with? Their point was that they never "found out" someone they were dating on there was trans, and everyone that dated from those apps who oc every discovered were trans were straightforward about it.

Why would you need or want to be that precise about your language?

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[-] chimera@lemm.ee 83 points 5 months ago

First, from a purely technical perspective, there is absolutely no way this works properly, you just can’t recognize a trans person just by looking at his/her face, even if this was ethically okay (and this isn’t), it couldn’t work at all.

Second, the privacy nightmare that would be, every picture of everyone would be processed (and certainly stored forever for training the program) without the possibility to disable it ?

And finally, the obvious discrimination against trans people (I never encountered a trans person that wasn’t honest about it, so it’s even pointless to "detect" them)

To be honest I’m not in the LGBT community or anything, but this goes to far

[-] r3df0x@7.62x54r.ru 25 points 5 months ago

TERFs are obsessed with the idea that you can always tell.

[-] greybeard@lemmy.one 10 points 5 months ago

I can always tell it is a toupee... except when I can't.

[-] Cqrd@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 5 months ago

It's marketing bullshit, in announcement they also said they used "heat signatures" from the photo to help determine if the person was trans lol

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[-] venusaur@lemmy.world 83 points 5 months ago

Curious what happens when it thinks a cis woman is trans.

[-] matrixrunner@lemmy.world 79 points 5 months ago

…and it will happen.

[-] inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world 101 points 5 months ago

Already has. Creator of the app doesn't past the screening test.

[-] Catoblepas 67 points 5 months ago

Whaaat, an app created to enforce sexist norms regarding who counts as a woman did just that?? 😲

[-] noodlejetski@lemm.ee 20 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

oh my god, this is delicious

edit: is this actually her tool, or just some random online test? because the actual app is still described as in making.

[-] wafflez@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

Different tool

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[-] IllNess@infosec.pub 5 points 5 months ago

The entire thread of the OG post is gold.

If this AI was so fucking smart why doesn't it just use facial recognition of celebs like RuPaul to wipe out a bunch of false positives?

[-] xantoxis@lemmy.world 45 points 5 months ago

The woman who launched the site gets clocked as trans by gender prediction systems. It's already happened.

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[-] Snapz@lemmy.world 42 points 5 months ago

It actually won't, it will incorrectly attempt to identify and exclude people, but it won't work, because this is all snake oil horseshit perpetrated by attention seeking grifters.

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[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 41 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The best part: The creator (a woman) couldn't even pass her own app's test; it said she was a man with 97% certainty. 🤣 TERF didn't check herself, and thus wrecked herself.

[-] gnuplusmatt@reddthat.com 39 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

isn't this solving a problem that doesn't really exist? I'd have thought most trans people on dating apps would be fairly up front about it... you know for safety or even just expectations management? I can't speak from experience, my dating life predates the rise of dating apps

[-] twig@lemmy.dbzer0.com 35 points 5 months ago

Yes, trans folks tend to be pretty upfront for the reasons you mentioned.

This is just some hateful, bullshit, trans panic nonsense. Some people can't even handle the idea that they might as a matter of course be attracted to a trans person given the opportunity.

This tech will inevitably also exclude some slightly less normative appearing cis folks too, but they don't care because they just hate trans people.

[-] can@sh.itjust.works 14 points 5 months ago

I was once downvoted to hell for expressing a similar sentiment on reddit.

[-] HawlSera@lemm.ee 38 points 5 months ago

So far the app has already banned a featherless hen and its own creator (seriously)

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

Plot twist: she only wanted to come out as trans so she cooked up this ridiculous idea to out herdelh

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[-] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 37 points 5 months ago

Yeah man that won't work

[-] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 27 points 5 months ago

When AI meets phrenology... Is there a scam that hasn't been recycled yet?

[-] billiam0202@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago

Bigots will use anything to justify their bigotry.

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[-] mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 23 points 5 months ago

Some daughters have the same face as their fathers, some sons have the same face as their mothers. How could this possibly work?

[-] Corgana@startrek.website 26 points 5 months ago

It won't, it's just a grift.

[-] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 20 points 5 months ago

It's like claiming that you can identify homosexuality through facial recognition. There's no such thing as a "trans face". It's just a silly idea.

[-] mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

@Corgana@startrek.website

They said the same thing about gaydar but I already subscribe $9.95/month for the AI addon package for that. I already preorded the trantenna (trans antenna 🤣 ) for a cool $500 down. No price is too much to keep children safe... on dating service networks? Wait, I thought we hated trans people to save the children? There shouldn't be children on these sites anyways.

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[-] TheBigBrother@lemmy.world 23 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

What about making different classifications for cis and trans males and females? There are people who are not dating someone trans or who only date trans people.

Saving them the weird moment of realizing it seems good.

[-] InquisitiveApathy@lemm.ee 23 points 5 months ago

You'd be better suited just having a user select that they are comfortable dating a trans individual because it will likely come up very early in the dating process anyway.

Forcing someone to identify as a gender that doesn't make them comfortable is just going to result in them not using your app and is frankly kind of a dick move overall. Your suggestion would just create an app that was suited for chasers, not trans users.

[-] Technus@lemmy.zip 8 points 5 months ago

I dunno about other apps, but OKCupid does have this option.

[-] PsyDoctah9Jah@lemmy.world 22 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Seems like wasted effort & resources....

The people on the apps should be able to manage their own activity.

As long as the greater society continues to conflate sex(ual)/genitalia[male, female, intersex/hermaphrodite] with gender(man, woman, trans man, trans woman, non-binary, etcetera) nothing will reach a mutal level of comprehension.

The plethora of false positives makes this technology flawed - the number of females who will be flagged as trans 😅..... the plethora of trans woman who will not get flagged....😅....

What a time to be alive.....

These apps are not created to make meaningful connections. It's to increase their profits and engagement. Apps have been around how long now, and we see a DECLINE in the quality of relationships not their improvement..

[-] ProgrammingSocks@pawb.social 20 points 5 months ago

They literally tried this exact thing already and it accepted many trans women and refused many cis women.

[-] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 19 points 5 months ago

Now if we could have a dating app that excluded conservatives...

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[-] vividspecter@lemm.ee 18 points 5 months ago

This already happened a few years ago. Transphobic ciswomen got mad when the app identified them as trans.

[-] TimeNaan@lemmy.world 16 points 5 months ago

Even the TERFs are getting into AI grifts nowadays

[-] nifty@lemmy.world 16 points 5 months ago

Who’d want to date anyone who uses this app anyways?

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[-] Beaver@lemmy.ca 12 points 5 months ago

Hopefully Apple doesn’t allow this astroturfer crap on the appstore.

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this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2024

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