Lobbying = Death of Democracy
It really is as simple as that. The moment you allow one group of people/companies to have 24/7 access to politicians and yet the general population only gets to vote every couple of years, you are effectively done with democracy.
Nothing you can do now but please remember this once/if the great reset is done 😁
Actual lobbying is a good thing. This is just bribery pretending to be lobbying.
I strongly disagree. All lobbying is wrong and could be considered bribery. At a minimum it is circumventing democracy. We see a case in front of us and see what happens in broad daylight, what you call bribery. Do you honestly belief this is a rare case or can we say this (lobbying) is not a transparent part of the process and thus an incentive to bribe/coerce politicians?
But I understand that the system is what it is atm and lots of people have been accustomed to it, up to the point of defending it.
You dont understand what actual lobbying is.
Real lobbying is simply educating policy makers on the change you want to happen. You can't reasonably expect every politician to be educated on every issue.
For example, my SO lobbied the state legislature about a bill that would keep parents out of prison for non-violent offenses.
Again, we're talking about bribery masquerading as lobbying.
I know what lobbying is and what forms it can take. In the end it is all about influencing a political system by bypassing the electorate.
Lets take this statement of yours:
"Real lobbying is simply educating policy makers on the change you want to happen. You can't reasonably expect every politician to be educated on every issue."
And this is why you should have a well working and functioning government. Politicians are elected and should have a global idea on what to do for the populace, they elected them after all. The knowledge you refer to should not be completely on these politicians. They might have some, based on their life experiences and education. The continuity and knowledge should come from civil servants. They are the cement of government, the persons who make the wheels go around. Ok, cement and wheels do not go well together but you get the gist of it.
Listen, we are (or soon very likely) going around in circles. I understand that the current system of lobbying is what people know and expect, even rely on, see your example of your SO. Of course you see the benefit of a system which is used for centuries, millennia perhaps even. It is, in my view, a broken and infectious system, meant to overrule the will of the people. Brought to you by powers that want continuous access and influence in a government but in the disguise of "being helpful".
I don't know what to say or how to explain it anymore then I already did.
Any system will be abused, that's just human nature, but that doesn't invalidate the system as a whole.
Lobbying by definition can be verbal. However lobbying law allows for financial contributions as long as they’re disclosed. That’s what they’re speaking against. It legally puts the power of our government in the hands of those with the deepest pockets.
Maybe its just me but this seems like a request for a bribe ...maybe I am not smart enough to understand these Elite people but its like what he asked Zelensky to do to Biden in that infamous phone call from Hell
Yea but compare that against decades of republicans saying “we’re not a democracy” while their judges champion foreign influence and remove regulations.
The Citizens United decision happened and people keep acting surprised about shit like this…
I hope Anthony Kennedy hits his head on a door frame and has to stop and blink a few times because it hurts.
Maybe its just me but this seems like a request for a bribe
That's pretty much all lobbying is. Legalized bribery.
Trump’s response stunned several of the executives in the room overlooking the ocean: You all are wealthy enough, he said, that you should raise $1 billion to return me to the White House. At the dinner, he vowed to immediately reverse dozens of President Biden’s environmental rules and policies and stop new ones from being enacted...
Giving $1 billion would be a “deal,” Trump said, because of the taxation and regulation they would avoid thanks to him
How the fuck is that even remotely legal?
Because the laws of the US are written by the people in charge who have all the money (resources).
Get money out of politics entirely. Interests of politicians needs to be aligned with the greatest number of people they represent, not companies
You can't do that unless you hold power though, and that means not just Congress and the Presidency, but also the courts, since they've ruled that money is speech. And getting there means actually kicking in money to help elect candidates willing to make that change. (Or paying in both blood and treasure through a revolution, which is a lot less likely)
Yeah man, we’re fucked
Congress could pass a law, or an amendment. But they'll have to destroy the republiQans to do that.
Which, obviously, i s preferable.
Hey member that time when Gee Dubz and Cheney planned to invade Iraq again? They met secretly with oil execs to review Iraq's oil fields then prevented those meetings from becoming public record?
Member? It was before the 2000 election. Or maybe just afterwards. Lemme check. Ah yes, March 2001. Six months before "another 'Pearl Harbor'" incident that surpise led to the invasion of those very same oil fields. What a coincidence!
Are we reaching a point in time where we need to codify some shit to prevent this from happening?
Are we reaching a point in time where we need to codify some shit to prevent this from happening?
A lot of this is already codified. Laws are toothless if those in charge of enforcing it are unwilling to do so.
That might help a little, but laws don't help stop fascism because the Republican judges and prosecutors are all OK with bribery when a Republican does it.
I mean if "the last 150 years" is "a point" then yeah we've reached it.
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