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submitted 6 months ago by Blaze to c/reddit@lemmy.world

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/19946388

An anticapitalist tech blog. Embrace the technology that liberates us. Smash that which does not.

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[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 67 points 6 months ago

Reddit LLM:

This

This

This

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 14 points 6 months ago
[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 19 points 6 months ago
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[-] Steve@startrek.website 8 points 6 months ago
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[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 46 points 6 months ago

Reddit will not license their data, they will license your data. Reddit doesn't have any data of its own.

Oh my sweet summer child.

They have all your data.

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 24 points 6 months ago

I think you misunderstood my statement

I don't think I did.

You're saying they're licensing your data.

I'm saying (very ineloquently), you assigned the rights to your data to them when you posted it. It was never yours from the moment it was created. I'm certain that's what their t&Cs say.

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[-] slazer2au@lemmy.world 35 points 6 months ago

If you want to have real fun replace all your comments with eicar test strings.

[-] Blaze 17 points 6 months ago

That's a quite good idea

[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 7 points 6 months ago

I'm gonna use Ipsum Lorem.

[-] Icalasari@fedia.io 10 points 6 months ago

Nah, put in jailbreaks to dump its data. See if you can make its LLMs have a seizure

[-] Pandantic@midwest.social 10 points 6 months ago

Please do you have some handy?

[-] lvxferre@mander.xyz 27 points 6 months ago

A few highlights that I'd like to make about this tool and its usage. Note: on a prescriptive level I'm focusing on moral matters, not legal ones.

This tool allows you to edit your content. You might have allowed other people and Reddit Inc. to use it, but it's still yours. And you should be free to do whatever you want with your content, even if it inconveniences others. And people expecting you to give up your moral rights for the sake of their own benefit, frankly, are simply entitled.

Another user here compared this with vandalism; I don't think that the comparison is good, given that vandalism targets someone else's property.

I also think that people in general are focusing too much on the short-term consequences of the usage of this tool, and too little on the long-term. Here comes some bullet points hell:

  • SEO "improvements" already caught up with the "add «reddit» to search queries!" trick. It's becoming less effective over time.
  • Reddit is accumulating huge amounts of noise, due to increased bot activity and decreased moderation. It'll likely get worse over time.
  • Reddit is walling itself off more and more over time. Eventually this info will become unavailable for anyone who ~~didn't sell their soul to Greedy Pigboy~~ isn't feeding that cesspool.
  • Every piece of content that you leave in that site is yet another piece of content "inviting" other users to register and stay there, dumping their content into that increasingly walled garden, where it won't be available publicly. And while they're free to do so if they so desire (it's their content), you're also free to not invite them.
  • There are alternatives to that enshittified platform, competing directly with it. (We're in one, by the way.) We should encourage people to use those alternatives, not Reddit.

Are you all getting the picture? You might be tempted to leave your content in Reddit for the sake of other people; even then, the pros of doing so are rather small, and there are cons not often mentioned.

Regarding LLMs, frankly? I think that it's mostly a neutral point. Sure, data hoarding bots will get your content from Reddit... but they'll do it if you post here in the Fediverse, in your blog, or elsewhere. The only alternative to not feeding those bots is to not speak "in the open".

[-] nucleative@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Has anyone recently checked the Reddit ToS?

It's possible that by clicking that submit button, a perpetual worldwide license was granted that included any purpose Reddit deemed worthy.

That could actually include every single version of every comment. Your first post, your ninja edit to correct your spellings, your edit update, and finally your plugin's update that wipes out your comment. All of this could be data Reddit can provide to LLM researchers.

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[-] Makeshift@sh.itjust.works 25 points 6 months ago

Making info on Reddit useless to real humans is the main reason I need to set aside time to do this.

I really don’t care if AI trains off of what I’ve said. I do care that greedy greedy Steve Huffman killed 3rd party apps for it.

If Reddit’s use for searching obscure stuff goes away, there goes the biggest draw of the site. Get people going elsewhere. Like here!

[-] spidermanchild@sh.itjust.works 5 points 6 months ago

I don't have anything useful to add other than Steve Huffman is a greedy pig boy.

[-] Grobmobularb@lemmy.world 22 points 6 months ago
[-] nehal3m@sh.itjust.works 13 points 6 months ago

Fuck /u/spez

[-] hperrin@lemmy.world 21 points 6 months ago

That’s probably not going to be useful. Reddit keeps your original comment text.

[-] tehciolo@lemm.ee 17 points 6 months ago

I think you missed the part where you were strongly suggested "not" to use copyrighted text.

The point is not to get rid of the original text. It's to "poison" the training data.

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 6 points 6 months ago

If the AI trainers have the original text then "poisoning" the live site's content isn't going to do anything at all.

You can't touch the original text. It's already been archived.

[-] tehciolo@lemm.ee 9 points 6 months ago

If they scrape the updated comments again and ingest copyrighted text, you are poisoning the data.

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 5 points 6 months ago

That's my point. They won't.

And even if they did, it's unclear that copyright has anything to say about AI training anyway.

[-] InternetPerson@lemmings.world 6 points 6 months ago

NYT is currently suing because of copyright infringiments.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/27/business/media/new-york-times-open-ai-microsoft-lawsuit.html

it’s unclear that copyright has anything to say about AI training anyway

Although lawmakers worldwide have slept while AI advanced and therefore missed to make some important laws, they are catching up. Europe recently passed its first AI act. As far as I've seen it also states that companies must disclose a detailed summary of their training data.

https://www.ml6.eu/blogpost/ai-models-compliance-eu-ai-act

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[-] Th4tGuyII@kbin.social 7 points 6 months ago

Yeah - this is what I was thinking. We all heard about people being unable to delete comments or Reddit keeping comments even after account deletions back during the first migration, so what stops them holding onto comment history - and what stops them using that to teach llms to discern poisoned data from real data as @pixxelkick said.

[-] pixxelkick@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

Yeah in fact you're giving the llm additional data to train on what poisoned data looks like so it can avoid it better, as they can clear see the before vs after

[-] InternetPerson@lemmings.world 3 points 6 months ago

It is necessary to employ a method which enables the training procedure to distinguish copyrighted material. In the "dumbest" case, some humans will have to label it.

Just because you've edited a comment, doesn't mean that this can be seen as "oh, this is under copyright now".

I don't say it's technical impossible. To the contrary, it very much is possible. It's just more work. This drives the development costs up and can give some form of satisfaction to angered ex-reddit users like me. However, those costs will be peanuts for giants like Google / Alphabet.

[-] brygphilomena@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago

This only affects scrapers. If reddit is selling the data, they will just sell the unedited version from their database.

This is ineffective and deleting or editing reddit comments has always been a circle jerk to make yourself feel good that you are "hurting" reddit in some way.

[-] AliasAKA@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

While this is true, I also kind of doubt that Reddit isn’t just one mistake away from accidentally deleting an old db and losing the historical data. So it may in fact mess up their ability to sell the data.

Also potential GDPR violations etc if you’re in the EU

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[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 14 points 6 months ago

Pointless vandalism. The original comments are already archived, this will accomplish nothing except make Google results even worse for people.

[-] Pavidus@lemmy.world 11 points 6 months ago

I'm down for that as well. It's their info, and they can do with it as they please. I have no right to it, unless they allow it. I totally understand the frustration of not finding the info you want, but I still support the practice.

It sucks that's where we are, but WE didn't steer the ship here. Now we just need to play ball within the confines given to us.

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[-] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Exactly my thoughts, and it's why I haven't stopped using the site. This doesn't hurt reddit at all, it only hurts people who want answers to obscure questions. What sucks is that the kind of person who knows what bug causes someone's Dell Inspiron D630 makes a beeping noise every 23 seconds is exactly the kind of person who's going to have all of their comments replaced with AI poison.

[-] Wiz@midwest.social 7 points 6 months ago

it only hurts people who want answers to obscure questions

Which makes them people less likely to trust Reddit with answers...

So they go to Reddit less often...

Which hurts Reddit.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

There used to be other ways to find out the RAM went bad. Like Dell’s site, for example.

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[-] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 6 points 6 months ago

I think you might want to reconsider getting vandalism as your analogy.

You can't vandalize your own property, and any comment or post you make is your words.

It would be like telling a writer they can't edit their own work. That's not vandalism, it's removing the limited license granted to reddit for your copyrighted material.

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[-] Xeroxchasechase@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

As a protest eaasure it has a lot of value. Far more than blacking a subreddit for 2 days.

[-] pHr34kY@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago

do not choose something copyrighted.

Is that with a "nudge, nudge, wink, wink"? It would be such a shame if the whole project were jeopardised by such things.

[-] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Lots of stuff like this already exists and has been proven useless. A guy here on lemmy was a big answer type on some tech support sub. He used one of the account scrubbers to nuke his account before he deleted. Went to look again a few weeks later and all his top comment answers had been restored.

They haven't bothered with most people because they simply aren't useful to making the place look attractive but no mater what you do your comments are stored and will be sold off to the AI companies.

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago

I'm pretty sure that violates GDPR.

[-] InternetPerson@lemmings.world 9 points 6 months ago

I think I have about 4000 comments on reddit. I've stopped using reddit last year in summer when they pushed their fucking API changes; have been on Lemmy since and never looked back. However, I still have the account, because sometimes I had really nice conversations, which I would like to look up once in a while, or to pick up something which I wanted to keep for another time, like a bookmark basically. I'm also one of the people who sometimes write really really much; walls of text as a product of a lot of effort I put in. It would be sad to see it all go away. Then again, fuck reddirt and it's management.

Is there a tool to back up my comments (or also the corresponding threads)? After that I'll gladly use the tool provided by luddite.

[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

You can request your data from Reddit and they'll send you a CSV file of all your activity. Takes a couple weeks though.

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[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Sucks it only works with the desktop version of Firefox.

How fast is it, anyway? I was on Reddit for 11 years and commented with the same frequency I do here. I have so, so much to edit.

[-] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

I believe you can only edit the last 1000 or so comments from your profile. Anything older than that doesn't display.

[-] bquintb@midwest.social 4 points 6 months ago

Shit I already deleted my account.

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this post was submitted on 24 Apr 2024
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