In my opinion it points to a more dangerous thing, “continuous delivery” software mindset seeping into safety critical systems.

It’s fine, good even, that web developers can push updates to “prod” in minutes. But imagine if some dork could push largely untested control system updates to your car’s ECU… it’s one thing for a website site to get a couple errors, but it’s a very bad thing if it makes your steering wheel stop working.

Unfinished products make more money, and it’s high time a consumer protection law clamped down on this.

Put your hate for Tesla aside for a moment. If a car company can fix an issue with a simple OTA software update, it’s way more convenient for both the customer and the manufacturer. Quality control of an update is a separate issue but I don’t imagine there’s a difference whether your car updates itself or gets taken in for the update- the same patch gets applied in either case.

I dont disagree with anything you said, I just think there should be a different, but equally severe term for clarity. It's not hurting Tesla so much as devaluing the word "recall". Make it hurt, Tesla is reckless with the way they ship unfinished products, but as I said before, I wasn't even sure what "recall" meant in this sense.

As someone who might be plowed into by one of these things, I care about the difference. Is it something where 80% of them will be automatically fixed within 72 hours by an auto-update, or is it something I’ll need to worry about for weeks/months. There’s no way to know which recalls have been fixed when encountering a vehicle in the wild, so if it’s a software-only recall fix that applies automatically, I feel less concerned about it once the fix is available.

None of this should be taken as support of recklessly shipping unfinished software into a car.

I think you don't understand the realities of software development. Have you ever tried to write an application that another person is going to use?

The software running onboard modern vehicles isn't all from the vehicle manufacturer. There are computer parts in there from various manufacturers that have their own software, and all the various pieces have to interact. Bugs can show up later that didn't appear in testing because no amount of testing can possibly check every interaction, it's just too complex. And most of those bugs are relatively minor, things like the music player volume not adjusting properly, or a little lag time in the menus. The idea that every customer would bring their vehicle back to a dealer for an update that fixes something like that is ludicrously unrealistic.

Fuck an OTA update too, I don’t want that either

Yeah no - you're dead wrong about that. My oldish car has an annoying glitch where it occasionally goes into limp home mode. The workaround makes it pretty clear this could be fixed with a software change (or even just a non-vague error code would be nice...) - but my car can't do OTA updates and also it's old enough it doesn't really have software so a recall would be hideously expensive.

It's not a safety problem, so wouldn't rigger a recall. When it's under warranty, they fix it... but sometimes it takes several attempts with multiple thousand dollar parts replaced on suspicion before finally finding the one that caused it, when it fails out of warranty... either live with the issue or sell the car for spare parts.

if an OTA update was possible they would absolutely do that. The ones that fail under warranty must be costing them a fortune.

But the real issue is recalls are expensive, and ultimately the car buyer pays for them. Car manufacturers are not charities, they will either raise prices to cover the cost of a recall or they will go bankrupt to avoid doing a recall. There is no other option on the table.

I love seeing comments like this on Lemmy. Reminds me of early reddit. Super informative.

Just because the government defined it that way 60 years ago when software updates weren't even a thing doesn't mean it makes sense to call a user-applicable fix a recall. It's literally in the name. Is it being re-called back to the manufacturer or not

Yeah, it’s an extremely popular sentiment on the internet to scoff at software update related recalls as if they “don’t count.” 9 times out of 10 the person making the claim is a Muskrat, because this is a very common thing with Teslas and daddy Elon must be defended at all costs but every now and then they’re just a run of the mill moron unwittingly parroting Muskrat talking points.

A recall is a recall whether the issue can be patched OTA or whether you have to drive to a dealership so they can spend 30mins swapping a random seemingly inconsequential part. The specific mechanics of the solution do not change the fact that a problem required a recall to be issued to consumers. Perpetuating the notion that these recalls should be considered “less important than a real recall” is dangerous to the point of stupidity.

This is a bad take. Software updates that fix life threatening defects are as serious as any recall.

Rereading the original comment, I didn’t get the implication they were trying to say a software update “recall” is less serious. The word “recall” literally means “to bring back.” So fundamentally, calling a software update a “recall” doesn’t make sense because you aren’t bringing your car anywhere.

As a car owner, now when you hear your car has a recall you have to find out if you need to take it into a service center or just update it at home. It would be better if these software recalls went by some different, new name that immediately conveyed what you need to do.

Right, because the recall for the icons on the screen needing to be a tad bigger is as serious as uncontrolled acceleration of a giant hunk of metal.

They need a new name for software update recalls and physical recalls. They both need to be serious, but a distinction is needed.

It's really is not bad, considering it's a completely new design and manufacturing process that is using all new custom tooling and assembly lines. No other manufacturer in the world is building cars like the Cybertruck is being built.

Doesn't make the quality any better or even excusable though....

Grand Wagoneer wishing they had numbers like that

Jobs didn't know shit. He made a bunch of predictions, some of them right, some of them not at all right. He just took credit for other peoples' work, mostly Wozniak's. The man was every bit the piece of shit Elon is.

Worth listening to the 3-part series on Jobs from Behind the Bastards: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-the-terrible-secret-of-156343561/

Fuck I thought I alt tabbed back to dwarf fortress for a second