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submitted 2 years ago by EarWorm@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

For example, I personally can't listen to Guns and Roses without immediately thinking "that Axl sure is an asshole", and that sours the entire experience.

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[-] Delphia@lemmy.world 46 points 2 years ago

I mean, theres 3 categories for giving them a pass on their transgressions (as a fan, not legally or morally speaking) IMO.

  1. The art/performance was just so far beyond good that you cant deny the cultural significance. E.g Michael Jackson, Elvis, Tupac.

  2. You had a personal connection to the art before they did the shitty thing or before it came to light. (In my case: early Chris Brown, Kid Rock) They were big in my late teens and early 20s and I have positive memories associated with their songs. Not the percieved quality of the art.

  3. They had their day in court, did their time and time has passed. E.g Mark Wahlberg, I dont know the guy, I dont know if he is a good person or not these days. But the last documented occasion of him being a huge violent racist asshole is 1992... 32 years ago.

[-] acetanilide@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago

This is great. It's not perfect, but it's great. It feels like an impossible task but it feels more possible with a structure like this.

[-] Jakdracula@lemmy.world 23 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Nope.

Eric Clapton is an anti-VAX conspiracy theorist and a racist. Van Morrison is anti-VAX conspiracy theorist and a racist. John Lennon is a serial abuser drug addict, beat women and abandoned his own son. Steven Tyler from Aerosmith is a pedophile. Anthony Kiedis from the Red Hot chili peppers is a pedophile.

Etc.

Anytime I learned something horrible about someone famous, I write them off completely.

[-] EarWorm@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

Wait, Anthony Kiedis!? That's news to me.

[-] metaphortune@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

It was to me too, had to go looking - guessing this from Wikipedia is what it was:

Kiedis acknowledges in his autobiography Scar Tissue that he had sexual relations with a 14-year-old girl when he was 23, before and after learning of her age, in the 1980s. This inspired him to write the song "Catholic School Girls Rule".

[-] c10l@lemmy.world 19 points 2 years ago

Not defending anyone here, but a paedophile is someone who’s sexually attracted to prepubescent children. I believe these days it’s extended to the early stages of puberty as well.

Most girls are well over that phase at age 14.

A 23 year-old having sex with a 14 year old may be morally and legally wrong depending on culture and jurisdiction, but the cases where it’s actual paedophilia are likely a small minority.

Again, I’m not defending anyone, but calling every person who’s attracted to minors a paedophile only serves to diminish the effect of the actual ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

[-] metaphortune@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago

I love clarifications like this! Good on ya.

[-] lemmyTXV3742@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago

Already didn't like Steven Tyler, but that's news to me.

Guess he'll never change my mind now.

[-] Chainweasel@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Don't forget Ted Nugent helped funnel Russian money through the NRA for Trump and is a pedophile, Meatloaf is anti-vax, and Roger Waters openly supports Putin's actions in Ukraine.

[-] Jakdracula@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Yup.

Don’t get me started on “Kid Rock”

[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Seems to me Waters has walked back that remark about Ukraine. His schtick is generally that he says provocative stuff that opposes western power structures, which sometimes causes him to overcompensate and say something in favour of, say, Putin.

I was at his concert last year and he was hardcore antifa, anti-supreme court, anti-establishment, anti-billionaires, anti-zionist, anti-nazi, pro-choice, and so on. Pictures of every U.S. president with the words "war criminal" captioning them. He seems like a class act to me.

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[-] PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 years ago

Yes. It's a basic skill you need to learn before you can even attempt to change our hellworld.

[-] klemptor@startrek.website 11 points 2 years ago

Generally I don't have a hard time separating the art from the artist. And it's probably bad and selfish, but if I had to stop listening to David Bowie, Eric Clapton, and John Lennon, I'd be so depressed. The world is deeply shitty, so I'm hanging on to whatever happiness I can find. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[-] Titou@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago
[-] kyle@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago

Eric Clapton is super racist, John Lennon abandoned his kid.

[-] cerulean_blue@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

But what about Bowie? Why his name being dragged through the mud

[-] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

For real I feel like Bowie is a poster star of trying to do his best to do good in the world with his wealth and fame

[-] kyle@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

I had to look this up, didn't know about Bowie. He had underage groupies, at least as young as 15 (Lori Mattix). Apparently she remembers that time fondly, but today we would rightly call it coercion and pedophilia. She was treated kindly, probably given all the drugs she "wanted", but that's still a child.

There's a counter argument about how later in life, he refused a kissing scene between him and Jennifer Connelly during Labyrinthe, and that shows he understands the age gap is wrong.

I don't regularly listen to David Bowie. I can sometimes separate the art from artist, but I'm now gonna have trouble knowing he was having sex with (raping) a 15 year old girl.

[-] CaptainBlagbird@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I can live with artists having different views/believes/opinions, but when it comes to actions they did, then it's a different story for me.

E.g. I don't enjoy Rammstein anymore

[-] GuyFi@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 2 years ago

Yeah, just do a little piracy

[-] hightrix@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Yes, always.

So many musicians and other artists are not only complete assholes, but also complete morons. But, I don’t listen to their music for their antics or their intelligence, I listen for the music.

I still listen to Johnny Craig and the Lost Prophets even though I know how horrible they are in real life. Because to me, the music is about the feeling that it elicits in me, not about the creator. I don’t care who made a thing, I care about the thing.

Edit: that said, I’ve not purchased music by those two, and instead pirated it.

[-] rageagainstmachines@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

Originally I thought I could, but no. Because when I listen to the music, I'm giving that artist money, attention, and power.

That results in giving them a bigger platform to spew their bigoted opinions/actions is counterintuitive to my goals. I would rather not.

[-] mojo_raisin@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

If it makes sense to consider the artist's actions and morality, it makes just as much sense to consider that of the producers et. al.

That leaves us with virtually no content tho.

[-] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago

Just today I wanted to show a friend UnDeadwood, a western horror one shot by the critical role crew, and learned they've removed ALL content with Brian W. Foster because he turned out to be an abusive piece of shit. I understand it on a certain level, but at the same time that's an INSANE amount of actually amazing content just gone because one dude turned out to be a piece of shit.

[-] mojo_raisin@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

Fucking Pepe Le Pew is totally a creep! Absolutely does not get consent!

[-] Horsey@kbin.social 5 points 2 years ago

I think it’s crucial…

[-] RotatingParts@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago

Yes. You listen to music without knowing anything about who wrote it and you feel something. That feeling has nothing to do with the composer or performer. Now if you find out the composer/performer is a "bad" person, I would recommend not giving them any money that could contribute to them spreading their "bad stuff". I'd still enjoy the music because your enjoyment isn't furthering their bad agenda.

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[-] Ohnobro@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

Obviously you can

[-] CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work 4 points 2 years ago

Yes. It's fine.

[-] slazer2au@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

Yes, because I don't care for the individual.

[-] blarth@thelemmy.club 3 points 1 year ago

Billy Corgan is that guy for me. He comes off as a total asshole in every interview I’ve listened to him give.

[-] SuperSynthia@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

There is so much music now, once I found out an artist doesn’t align with my values it’s easy to drop them.

[-] tsonfeir@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago

If I liked them before I knew, yes. But if I knew going in, it’s hard not to think about.

[-] Ironfist@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago

I have to, otherwise I wouldnt listen to music at all...

[-] vortexal@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago

I'd imagine so but I don't currently listen to any artists that have done anything bad as far as I'm aware.

[-] kandoh@reddthat.com 2 points 2 years ago

I just try to avoid giving money to the living bad ones

[-] ososalsosal@aussie.zone 2 points 2 years ago

To an extent I can, like Axl is a complicated one given his mental health issues. Nothing excuses his behaviour but he seems to have grown as a person and managed to somewhat control his shittier side.

But there's definitely a line. I can't really enjoy rammstein or die antwoord anymore

[-] Chozo@fedia.io 1 points 2 years ago

What happened with Rammstein and Die Antwoord?

[-] ososalsosal@aussie.zone 5 points 2 years ago

Turns out Lindemann is quite rapey, and Die Antwoord had this whole (alleged) sex slavery thing with an Australian rapper.

Seems often they're not just making up their lyrics after all but singing from experience

[-] fiat_lux@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Die antwoord also adopted, abused and abandoned an ~~albino~~ (Edit: my mistake, he has hypohidrotic ectodermal dysplasia) child, Tokkie, who spoke out a few years ago. They're truly awful and Tokkie's documentary is worth watching.

Also Marilyn Manson has been evicted from my music library for sexual abuse. I have no interest in supporting known exploiters, and I can't listen to their music without thinking about how awful they are as people. No regrets, there's plenty more musicians out there worth my time.

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[-] theywilleatthestars@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

Depends on how parasocial I am. Never gave much of a shit about Win Butler as a person, so I don't really think about the shit he's gotten up to, but the several months when I thought Conor Oberst might be a rapist were devastating

[-] metaphortune@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

Win's is still so tough to me. I read through each of the statements and my final thought was: he did some bad things, but nothing that's going to get him thrown in jail. Similar to Aziz Ansari if I remember correctly. Now whether or not punishment would be morally right is another discussion, obviously our legal system is Very Flawed.

[-] mcmoor@bookwormstory.social 1 points 2 years ago

My moral almost don't align with every single one of singers that I have heard, so I'm kinda forced to do it

[-] Clbull@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think it depends on the person, what they've done, if they've been convicted and individual tolerance.

Many people shrug when they learn that John Lennon was an abusive asshole who used to beat his wife. Many more wilfully let Chris Brown back into the industry after how badly he beat the shit out of Rihanna. Even artists like Michael Jackson and R Kelly managed to avoid child molestation accusations for years, and likewise more people rushed to cancel 6ix9ine for snitching on the Nine Trey Gangsters than they did when he was convicted of doing inappropriate sexual things to a 13 year old girl and somehow only landing probation.

Then you have truly bad cases like Ian Watkins, former leader singer of LostProphets. The band had effectively been disavowed from the moment of his arrest.

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this post was submitted on 12 Apr 2024
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