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submitted 1 year ago by CrimsonFlash@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca
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[-] brndnpink@beehaw.org 28 points 1 year ago

American high school teacher here (Midwest region). We implemented a policy this year banning cellphones in instructional spaces during instructional time. Enforceable by confiscation if teachers saw or heard a phone. We have a strong set of administrators who supported teachers in any case where there was student pushback. It has been a huge success in terms of limiting distractions during instructional time. All of our students are provided Chromebooks so there really isn’t much of an instructional reason to have phones anyway. It has also contributed to a drop in student-on-student behavior problems.

I do feel for the girl in this article for whom it was used as a coping mechanism for bullying. No policy comes with zero downsides. However, it sounds like she was allowed exceptions in certain cases, which is exactly what should happen.

[-] RagingNerdoholic@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I do feel for the girl in this article for whom it was used as a coping mechanism for bullying. No policy comes with zero downsides

Right, it's kind of a trolley problem. Is it better to do lesser harm through action (banning cell phones, meaning a few students like this can't reach their family during school hours), or greater harm through inaction (loose cell phone policy, harming the learning process for everyone, inviting violence against teachers who are competing against addictive algorithms for their students' attention)?

Cell phones barely existed when I was in school and were certainly out of reach for students. Bullying still happened (personal experience, yay) and staff would shut that shit down when they saw it or it was reported.

[-] Grennum@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

I also went to school with no cell phones, and was bullied mercilessly. Staff didn't care then, and I doubt they care now. I'm glad you went to a school where the adults cared.

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[-] Midnight_Ice@lemmy.ca 25 points 1 year ago

There's a lot of people here immediately jumping to the "cell phones bad!" conclusion.

Phones are a part of kids lives nowadays. Banning them in schools isn't going to help anyone. How are children supposed to learn to use technology safely and effectively if we just take it away from them instead? I don't want to imply that it is only a teachers job to teach kids about safe technology use, because it isn't, but kids spend 30+ hours a week at school. It is a large portion of their lives and what they learn in the classroom often ends up reflected in their lives outside of school.

I think everyone who jumps to the conclusion to ban cell phones in schools is missing the point. All it does is encourage kids to use their technology in unsupervised spaces instead. It doesn't teach them how to use it safely or effectively, and it doesn't prevent them from participating in cyber bullying. All it does is push issues such as that outside of the school where kids have arguably less resources and support systems to deal with it.

[-] potterman28wxcv@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

We can all agree that alcohol isn't bad by itself and that we can learn to use it safely (don't drink too much, knowing when we had enough etc..). And yet we keep away alcohol from children. Why? Because it is a well-known fact that children may not have the capability to limit themselves; they might very well become addicted and fall into it.

Why should it be any different for mobile phones? We know it can become an addiction. And we also know that children do not have the means to limit themselves because of their young age.

Deliberately letting a kid having a phone for an indefinite amount of time is being irresponsible. What would be responsible is only allowing to use the phone for a limited time.

Schools banning phone could be one way towards that. It would be a good way too because the kid would not be suffering from any social pressure from their peers as everyone would be concerned with the ban.

[-] heartlessevil@lemmy.one 7 points 1 year ago

I started learning to code at 9 years old and that helped me become a professional developer in my teens. Preventing access to technology is just removing opportunities from your children. Teach them responsible usage, if it was possible 30 years ago it's possible now.

[-] RagingNerdoholic@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 year ago

Nobody does programming on their phones

[-] heartlessevil@lemmy.one 3 points 1 year ago

They learn to customize their phones, can figure out how to build apps for them, etc. Mobile programming is, predictably, a very good skill to have right now.

[-] RagingNerdoholic@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago

Yeah, and they can learn that during a class or vocational semester for the subject, but everyone needs a solid baseline in core subjects without being constantly distracted.

[-] neighbourbehaviour@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Staring down enshittified platforms instead of learning actual social interaction. 👌

E: This may come off as it's their fault. That's not the case of course. That's why adults are having this conversation. The adults before them built the system that gave us these companies which create those enshittified platforms in the neverending search of profit.

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[-] potterman28wxcv@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I'm all in to get programming classes where children learn to code on PCs. That's a high pass for me. But AFAIK children aren't doing programming on their phones.

In general i doubt using a phone at school is going to help them program or teach them about technology. They have plenty of time to explore phones on their own when they get home, especially now that kids don't go much outside anymore. It's not like a school ban would be cutting that away from them.

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[-] Cybermass@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is just a bad comparison, comparing a drug to electronics makes literally 0 sense.

We don't let kids eat during class because it's disruptive, should we ban eating in schools all together? Kids aren't allowed to play sports in the hallways, sports can cause injuries, ban sports at school?

That's the logic of this comparison, that is, none at all.

[-] neighbourbehaviour@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's an analogy. It's inaccurate as all analogies are. Yet it's useful to make the point that banning children from doing X or Y isn't unprecedented or unacceptable.

Kids go to school for much more than what they learn in class. A fully formed human being that can function in a society requires a lot of social interaction training. That's what school is for in-between classes. If kids are staring down their phones during that time instead of interacting with each other, that training is lost. Worse, instead of that, they get trained on a false social reality as portrayed by whatever enshittified platform they're currently on, based on whatever behavior makes the most money today. Is this enough to visualize the damage phones in hallways cause?

[-] potterman28wxcv@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

I am comparing a drug to a drug that's the whole point. Phones are drugs. For adults and children alike.

The problem is not in the phone itself. It's in the lack of doing things that kids should normally be doing at that age. They will play with their phone instead of playing physically (less tonus), sleeping (constant tiredness), talking with their parents (learning) or other kids (socializing).

I know kids like that in my family. You can tell from the dark lines under their eyes that they spend most of their day staring at a screen. And if you ask them to play outside they just don't know what to do, they need access to a screen even with other kids. It's really a scary sight. And its a drug yes

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[-] RagingNerdoholic@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

We don’t let kids eat during class because it’s disruptive

You're so close the understanding the problem

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[-] Woofcat@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 year ago

This is going to be my hot take of the day.

Cars are very much part of our lives and we decided that there was a minimum age to own and operate them. I could potentially get behind a system where we don't let children below a certain age operate / own a phone.

It's illegal to smoke with a kid in your car, but we have no problem giving a 10 year old kid unfiltered internet 24/7 as a society.

[-] Mardok@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

This is a hot take that I can get on board with. I think in order for this to happen we (as a society) will have to come to grips with the real damage device addiction can do to our lives. The harm is easy to find with second hand smoke and alcohol but we do a great job turning a blind eye to all the issues we're causing for ourselves by being stuck on our devices.

[-] Glide@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

I don't strictly disagree, but the damage misusing a car can cause is a lot more obvious and quantifiable than a phone, so it is a much harder argument to make

That said, high school students do drive and they can't do so in the classroom, so we're rapidly approaching an apples and oranges argument with regards to how phones should specifically look inside of school.

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[-] someguy3@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago

Phones are a part of kids lives nowadays.

It has a time and place. I think the point here is that the time and place is not in class.

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[-] cyborganism@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

In that case there should be some time dedicated to that topic.

Otherwise, they have all that technology in hand as soon as classes finish. The younger generations are all born with tablets and smartphones in their hands.

I'm really not worried about them learning how they work.

Heck, we had a PC at home and I learned how to use DOS as soon as I learned how to read just so I could play games.

I think you're understanding these kids.

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[-] TEKUMS@lemmy.ca 19 points 1 year ago

I'm surprised that this wasn't something that was already implemented. When I was in highschool in the early 2000's cellphones would be instantly taken away if they were spotted by a teacher during class.

I don't understand parents needing constant contact with their children. As a kid I would've hated that, helicopter parenting x1000.

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

The article mentions kids being able to call their parents when being bullied. Having an emergency contact option is always useful.

[-] TEKUMS@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago

Understandable, but I doubt much bullying is happening during class time, where I feel that having cellphones put away would be the most beneficial. Several times I've been asked to put my cellphones in pouches that set off alarms when opened during small comedy shows/concerts, I feel that might be an alright solution to in class device lock down. Then when the class is over phone can come out.

In terms of bullying I think that's more a failure of the education system that these students don't have someone to turn to, in the faculty, to deal with it. It sucks because I couldn't imagine what bullying is like now in the digital age. I always felt that teachers and admins never got enough power to deal with severe bullying without blow back from parents.

[-] zephyreks@lemmy.ca 18 points 1 year ago

Phones aren't the problem, applications are. No one ever complained about having Nokia 3310s in their pockets.

[-] i_love_FFT@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

Bright colorful screens that mess up serotonin are also part of the problem.

[-] n7gifmdn@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

you clearly went to a different school than I did in tne 1990s

[-] quafeinum@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah, snake2 was addictive.. and don't forget space impact.

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[-] ion@lemmy.ca 18 points 1 year ago

At my high school most of my teachers didn’t allow cellphones in class, and would take them away for the period if they caught the student more than once.

There isn’t a lot of need for cellphones in a classroom, especially if the students have access to school laptops/computers.

[-] Rumblestiltskin@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I assumed cell phones would be banned in classrooms. When I was in school any sight of a walkman would get it taken away!

[-] Bad_company_daps@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago

When I was in highschool (late 10s) you were allowed to have your phone on you in class, it wasn't instantly taken away if they saw the outline in your pocket, but you weren't allowed to use it in class.

[-] Rumblestiltskin@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago
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[-] CrimsonFlash@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago

T9 texting without looking at your phone is a lost art.

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[-] deelayman@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago

As an adult with mild ADHD I can admit that my cellphone poisons productivity. I can imagine not doing so well in school if the same fully fledged dopamine machines existed when I was a kid.

At the same time, I can't imagine a full ban on cellphones being the reasonable course of action. There's probably a compromise in there somewhere.

[-] Ginger@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

As an adult with strong ADHD, I concur. I lock up my phone and keep it far away when working because it's kryptonite for my already minimal ability to focus on the task at hand.

But cellphones became common-ish when I was in school, and the rule of the time was "it stays in your locker". People were wary of theft and would usually bring them in turned off so teachers wouldn't confiscate them, but it did the job of keeping phones out of hands in class.

I know parents want to have access to their kids 24/7, but that's such a new mindset and I can't imagine it does much good for kids' development, either.

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[-] Glide@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 year ago

Secondary teacher here.

Trying to remove phones from the classroom entirely is just reinforcing that phones are for entertainment. It is a tool and needs to be handled like a tool: we should be teaching responsible use, and limiting it from those who have proved they can't be responsible on a per-case basis.

When students use their phones responsibly, they can be powerful learning aids. And I have zero issues calling out individual students who refuse to use them responsibly and treating their actions like any other misdemeanor.

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[-] Gray@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago

I think cellphones should be banned in classrooms and allowed between classes. I'm not sure why they should need to be banned during students' freetime. This is how it was when I was in high school during the very early years of smartphones and it worked out fine. If I wanted to listen to music while walking down the halls or during lunch, that was a really important coping mechanism for me with how dramatic high school can be. It also allowed me to keep in touch with my friends and meet them around the school. I think it's overly reactionary to do a blanket ban like that. I completely understand the need to ban them within classrooms. That's reasonable to me as classrooms should only be for learning.

[-] Whooping_Seal@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

At least when I was in secondary school teachers did not have to confiscate phones, reasonable usage of cell phones was permitted (or laptops for that matter) while unreasonable usage would first result in the instructor asking you to put your phone away and subsequently result in confiscation. Reasonable usage could be using a English-French dictionary online, or taking a photo of a white board. I think it also helped that the school wifi blocked social media and the building had horrendous reception due to the building style, and most VPNs would be blocked so it was difficult to circumvent anyways. I think a complete ban is unreasonable, students should learn how to use technology effectively to ameliorate their education while also learning when it is not appropriate to use it at all (e.g. when the teacher is lecturing).

Edit: I should add for primary school I feel like devices are significantly less useful, and only school owned devices should be used under supervision of staff if necessary (e.g. a computer lab, or a chromebook cart). I do not know how many students bring phones in that age group now, since when I went the most anyone had was an iPod usually except for the rare person with more.

[-] lightrush@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago

Sounds like a fabulous idea.

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago

Looks like a ban on smartphones would be more reasonable, while allowing certain kinds of old school phones (the kind for example Hasidic Jews use), to allow for emergency contingencies.

Schools have dress codes, and people adapt to those. Maybe we just need tech codes.

[-] Grennum@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago

This is just silly. Just ban the phones.

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

No it is not silly. You're silly.

:|

[-] 2br02b@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Parents are saying they are a lifeline. So, not so fast.

[-] lp0101@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Right? I survived just fine withiut a cell phone until partway through high school. If there was an emergency, my parents would just call the school.

[-] PenguinTD@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

I grew up without a cell phone until like 3rd~4th year in university, cause I am old. (no, I don't even have a message box thing that ask you to call a number back.)

But, depending on the kid's age and situation, I think a phone is necessary. It allows you to record conversation, take photo/video. It's a very powerful tool to deter bullying attempts if you teach the kid how to use it. (as you can set back up to cloud asap with data plans, even if the bully tried to take away phone the video is already recorded, you can even setup a live streaming app so it streams right away and archive on the cloud.)

The school wants to ban cause they don't want to deal with the confrontations or why the teaching isn't attracting the kids' attention.

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[-] tendou@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago

Ban phone just not the right thing. In nowaday, can get help if the person get school bully? Just click power button 5 times to call police. Something happen? have a call. give the chridren some money for snake or launch? phone. lost direction, phone.

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[-] Grennum@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

I like the idea of a complete ban on cell phones during teaching periods, and maybe even on school grounds at all. I have no idea how to enforce such a ban and as mentioned in the article if schools are struggling to even contain violence, how are they going to manage cell phone use?

The article highlights an issue, there is something wrong with our schools. It is more then just the normal generational discomfort(though that is part of it). Again I don't know the solution but I think we need to acknowledge that we are failing today's students(they are not failing us because we are the adults). Then we can discuss how to improve things.

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this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2023
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