267
submitted 7 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

The Vatican on Monday declared gender-affirming surgery and surrogacy as grave violations of human dignity, putting them on par with abortion and euthanasia as practices that reject God’s plan for human life.

The Vatican’s doctrine office issued “Infinite Dignity,” a 20-page declaration that has been in the works for five years. After substantial revision in recent months, it was approved March 25 by Pope Francis, who ordered its publication.

In its most eagerly anticipated section, the Vatican repeated its rejection of “gender theory,” or the idea that one’s gender can be changed. It said God created man and woman as biologically different, separate beings, and said people must not tinker with that plan or try to “make oneself God.”

“It follows that any sex-change intervention, as a rule, risks threatening the unique dignity the person has received from the moment of conception,” the document said.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.ml 127 points 7 months ago

It took them five years to whip up a measly 20 pages of dipshittery? Magic space daddy is free to come down here himself and choke on my girl dick if they take such offense to me. Show up quick though I've got The Surgery™️ in two months. My unique dignity is I do whatever the fuck I want to with my body, and if god didn't want that for me shouldn't have given me the damn thing in the first place

Also I love that they're like "don't modify your precious god given body!" and in the same breath say intersex people should be "corrected". Fuck these ghouls and fuck anyone who supports them

[-] glimse@lemmy.world 67 points 7 months ago

If God wanted the Pope to read, he would have given him better eyes. Take those things off right now, Mr. Pope. Glasses are an affront to God.

[-] Stovetop@lemmy.world 35 points 7 months ago

"don't modify your precious god given body!"

"No doctor, you must not remove that child's appendix! All parts of the body are made in god's image, and if god wanted this child's appendix to develop appendicitis, it is surely part of god's plan!"

[-] mrfriki@lemmy.world 21 points 7 months ago

It’s much easier, if God wanted us to do something instead of any other things then why the fuck will give us free will, instead of making a bunch of robots.

[-] Stovetop@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

From another viewpoint, though, we are all flesh robots. Our bodies are built on genetic programming, our personalities and behavior based on environmental stimuli. How much independent thought or agency can an individual claim to have when so much is predetermined the moment we draw first breath?

Might even be able to predict it all if you have a powerful enough computer.

[-] ImADifferentBird 9 points 7 months ago

I mean, if that is the case, then that means God built some people to be transgender and seek gender affirming care.

So either way, the church's bit here is bullshit.

[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

That's my argument against the religious. If God created you, then he chose to make you trans or gay. He chose to make people skeptical. He chose to make people who need hard evidence to believe things.

If there is a creator who purposely made each of us, then It would see no moral difference between gay and straight, cis and trans. It would also not judge people for disbelief, because It made people who were predisposed to disbelief without extraordinary evidence.

All in all, fuck the religious. They don't understand their own religion.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 116 points 7 months ago

And if anyone knows about violating human dignity, it's the Pope.

[-] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 74 points 7 months ago

So…god did not plan for the reality of the fluidity of genders? The all powerful all knowing god did not account for this in his plan?

[-] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 36 points 7 months ago

Hey...shut up.

-Pope.

[-] FoxyFerengi@lemm.ee 30 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The Torah has eleven genders in it. The Jewish God is supposed to be the same one as the Catholic God, so clearly they haven't read up on their own history

Edit: it's the Talmud and it's 8, my bad

[-] ImADifferentBird 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

What's fascinating there is that not only does the Talmud identify eight genders, but two of them specify having changed their gender presentation through human intervention - precisely the type of intervention that the Pope is decrying here.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] LadyAutumn 62 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Fuck Pope Francis. Love that he said "no its okay to do genital surgery on babies (literally less than 2 years old) if they don't match what we decided was right for them". Intersex people can just go fuck themselves in the Pope's view I guess.

0 fucking consistency to any of their bullshit rhetoric. I think God's core message is actually to shut the fuck up and let medical professionals address people's health problems.

GRS literally saved my life. I would literally be dead if not for it. Transitioning allowed me to live a happy, fulfilled life. Anyone who tries to say that I shouldn't have been able to transition, or should be forced to detransition, is unironically literally saying that I should be fucking dead. No part of me is a man. If God existed, then me as I am today was always his plan and design for me. Because otherwise he's just a fucking asshole who literally created me just to suffer and die. If such a God existed I would have no qualms openly defying his creation, because no human being should be driven to suicide over something that real medical treatments exist for.

“ideological colonization”

The unbelievable fucking audacity for the catholic God damn church to accuse trans people of colonizing is so fucking wild. Such an unbelievable thing to say as someone who's the head of an organization that goes around the world "converting people from their heathen religions to Christianity". But somehow spreadings trans rights to be themselves and receive medical treatments that save their lives is "colonization". I'll tell that to the tens of thousands of dead native children buried outside catholic residential schools.

[-] ours@lemmy.world 14 points 7 months ago

Glad you are now happy with yourself. Indeed, how should anyone but yourself tell you who you are?

Adults of sound mind should have the right to do to their body what they wish for whatever reason they wish. It's nobody else's business. But we can't expect most ingrained religions or conservatives to accept this.

[-] ImADifferentBird 15 points 7 months ago

Perhaps, then, we shouldn't accept conservatives or their religions.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago

The problem is that millions of people think that the Pope has a direct line to their god and if the Pope says being trans is in violation of their god's plan, they're not going to be good to trans people and some religious trans people, especially the ones who aren't out, will be driven further into the closet due to the self-hate.

The whole idea of a high pontiff is pretty terrifying. Look at the Crusades. How many people were killed because the Pope said to go kill them and people following him did what he ordered? There's well over a billion Catholics. If the Pope said to rise up and kill and even 1% of them followed him, the bloodbath would be enormous.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] ImADifferentBird 55 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

It distinguished between gender-affirming surgeries, which it rejected, and “genital abnormalities” that are present at birth or that develop later. Those abnormalities can be “resolved” with the help of health care professionals, it said.

Of course. God created males to be male and females to be female, and any attempt to change that is an abomination... but he didn't create intersex people to be intersex, and that must be "corrected". Just goes to show, this is just man putting his hate in God's mouth again.

Honestly, the main reason I don't believe in God is because I can't believe any all-powerful, just and benevolent God would allow things like this to be said in their name without any push back.

[-] Sharkwellington@lemmy.one 8 points 7 months ago

Honestly, the main reason I don't believe in God is because I can't believe any all-powerful, just and benevolent God would allow things like this to be said in their name without any push back.

Yep. I'll believe in God when he starts smiting Philistines again.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] Chestrade@lemmy.world 43 points 7 months ago

But touching little kids was definitely part of the plan.

[-] Reality_Suit@lemmy.one 14 points 7 months ago

Touching kids is their only plan.

[-] 2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de 36 points 7 months ago

Ok boomer. If trans people want to "make themselves God", I support that. Whatever that is supposed to mean anyway.

[-] MrFunnyMoustache@lemmy.ml 34 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

God's plan is just the alpha release, has a lot of bugs, and is not feature complete. Lol

[-] Zorsith 15 points 7 months ago

Annoyingly stable tho. How we gonna speedrun without clipping through things?

[-] diverging@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago
[-] Zorsith 6 points 7 months ago

That'd be some fun shit, some doug-adams-esque "throw yourself at it and miss" stuff except you've gone through a wall

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] spyd3r@sh.itjust.works 7 points 7 months ago

He sounds a lot like Bethesda

[-] Shurimal@kbin.social 13 points 7 months ago

...and when a bunch of really talented modders make things better than great a loud minority starts crying out "Nooo! Can't play Skyrim with mods, it's cheating! I don't want anime tiddies and Thomas the Tank Engine in Skyrim! It's not what Todd envisioned! Waaaa!".

And yes, there actually is a certain bunch who think mods in a single-player game==cheating. Somehow.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[-] whodatdair 29 points 7 months ago

Welp, turns out they’re still the same old Catholic Church after all. Whoda thunk it? 🙄

[-] sapient_cogbag@infosec.pub 29 points 7 months ago

Fuck this bioessentialist piece of trash.

I don't believe in any god, but even if I did I would not think such an entity had any right to dictate or make judgements on who I am and how I am, or my identity or purpose.

I'm so goddamn sick of this bullshit. I get to decide who I am and set my own path, fuck these people who think they get to tell me (and everyone else) what my life and body and purpose and identity are >:(

Really, I can't even begin to describe how much I hate this sort of patronising bullshit, how many of us have to suffer or die because of the relentless repressive normativity imposed by these groups and their infantilising ideologies of self repression and obedience and compliance, especially with the "dignity" and "diversity" doublespeak they've been trying to use in the past few months even while they systematically try to erase those very same things from anyone who doesn't fit into their suffocatingly binary and restricted conceptualisation of identity nya.

Our biology, identity and lives should be ours to control. We are capable of deciding our goals and purposes. I frankly hope more people realise they don't need some patronising religious institution to tell them how they should exist or what their purpose should be (if any, some folks are more nihilistic), and seize their morphological autonomy and decision making from groups that would deny it to them under the guise of such bullshit as supposed "dignity" ^.^

Seriously, fuck this. The Catholic Church (and this """cool""" pope), as well as pretty much all the other organised religious institutions who propagate the same infantilising and self-subjugating rhetoric, can go fuck themselves with a cactus in every available hole.

[-] HopeOfTheGunblade@kbin.social 7 points 7 months ago

Christianity: Humans have free will.

No no not like that!

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 28 points 7 months ago

Remember kids: this is the leftwing darling good Pope.

Religion, not even once.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] CubitOom@infosec.pub 26 points 7 months ago

Wasn't Eve created from a man's rib as an afterthought?

[-] yannic@lemmy.ca 7 points 7 months ago

There are two creation narratives in the book of Genesis, and both are considered to be historical allegories.

[-] Willie@kbin.social 13 points 7 months ago

Can we really handwave away the whole Adam and Eve thing though?

If we do, then what did Jesus die for?

[-] Lath@kbin.earth 7 points 7 months ago

The original sin. Which in most myths is acquiring knowledge or attaining sentience.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 13 points 7 months ago

The whole rib thing is likely just a PG version of the original...

Humans are one of the only mammals lacking a penis bone, men and women both have 24 ribs each...

There's only one bone that human males lost, and that was the dick bone. So if Eve was made from a bone, she's the root cause of male impotence because it's a lot harder to keep a boner without a bone when you're trying to bone.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 8 points 7 months ago

both are considered to be historical allegories.

How convenient that the "word of god" (as many churches describe the bible) is so open to human interpretation.

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 25 points 7 months ago

You know what really violates human dignity? Being raped by a priest and then having the church cover it up.

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 20 points 7 months ago

Funny I felt a lot less dignity without gender affirming surgery.

And on a bitchier note, my genitals may be handmade, but I’m allowed to use them.

[-] njm1314@lemmy.world 19 points 7 months ago

I can't say I really understand the argument against surrogacy they're making here. It seems like the same argument would mean that adoption shouldn't be allowed either. Their other argument on the matter seems to be that abuse of a system means a system should be eliminated, which is an interesting argument for the Catholic Church to make.

[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 7 points 7 months ago

I can't say I really understand the argument against surrogacy they're making here

I remember a Bible story about a man that died before having an heir so his brother was to impregnate the widow. But surrogacy is bad for some reason?

Oh, surrogacy is something a woman could benefit from. Right.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] audalics@lemmy.world 16 points 7 months ago

Projecting as usual, are we?

[-] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I think offloading one's morality to a patriarchal power-hungry cartel is an embarrassment to human dignity, but you know what I do about it?

Let people live the one life they have in whatever way they want so long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

It's not anyone else's job to force their idea of dignity on people, but I guess the Catholic Church isn't known to stop their clergy from being forced onto unwilling targets.

[-] Fades@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

the vatican can blast this dick

[-] Wogi@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

They'd only be interested if you were a minor

[-] MagicShel@programming.dev 6 points 7 months ago

people must not tinker with that plan or try to “make oneself God.”

How fortunate it is that every single one of is sins and can all be forgiven, so we can just leave worrying about all that up to God, right? Right?

Or some shit. I'm an atheist, but I understand the myth better than most believers. Not that it matters because there is no logic or consistency anywhere in the doctrine, so why assume there is any in this edict?

[-] EmpathicVagrant@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

god made light so why aren’t light bulbs playing god?

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

Not holding my breath, but I'd love to see a day when religious leaders run out of followers.

[-] esc27@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

If "God created man and woman as biologically different" then who created all the different intersex people? Even if you ignore or dismiss trans people, there are other people whose sexual characteristics at birth were not so easily sorted into male or female, and others whose physical traits either don't align with the basic understanding of "sex" chromosomes or whose chromosomes are different than XX and XY.

Logically, if God exists, then either their statement is wrong and He does make people whose gender is indeterminate, or there is another god who is also making people. Or perhaps He is not that involved in the process, and "God's Plan" is more of a loose framework.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 08 Apr 2024
267 points (100.0% liked)

News

23301 readers
3208 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS