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submitted 1 year ago by neocamel@lemmy.studio to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

My wife works in a restaurant, and the power-tripping manager has instituted a new policy where all shift changes must be approved by management. I think that is reasonable enough, but they're also asking the originally-scheduled employee why they are switching shifts, then approving or denying based on the answer.

For example, her coworker (Tom) wanted Monday afternoon off, and Harry agreed to cover the shift. The manager asked Tom why he wanted Harry to work for him, and Tom said, "I have a softball game." Manager denied the shift change because it was "unnecessary".

Is this legal? I feel like if you're able to find someone to cover your shift, you don't owe management any explanation why you need the time off. How should my wife approach this situation? Colorado, USA BTW.

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[-] smokin_shinobi@lemmy.world 340 points 1 year ago

“Personal obligation.” Should be the only response anybody gives him going forward.

[-] Uniquitous@lemmy.one 113 points 1 year ago

Bad case of anal glaucoma. I just can't see my ass going in to work today.

[-] AstralWeekends@lemm.ee 22 points 1 year ago

A+, just got to figure out how to work this into conversation without getting HR involved now.

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[-] dicksinabag@lemmy.world 75 points 1 year ago

Exactly. I'm a manager and literally never ask the reason unless it's longer than a week. They like to tell me anyway even though I've told them I don't care.

[-] fleabomber@lemm.ee 73 points 1 year ago

Maybe they just really feel like they can open up to you, Dicksinabag.

[-] Established_Trial@lemm.ee 22 points 1 year ago

I feel like I could open up to Discksinabag pretty easily

[-] Risk@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

I'd actually prefer it if they opened up to me.

[-] Established_Trial@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago

I don’t know, that feels like a risk

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[-] JDubbleu@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

I can't imagine having a manager like in this post. I had to get a few hours coverage for my on call shift to pick my partner up from the hospital for an outpatient surgery. Manager didn't ask why I needed coverage but it just happened to come up. They immediately offered to get my entire shift moved without me even asking.

[-] SilentStorms@lemmy.fmhy.ml 11 points 1 year ago

Seriously don't understand managers like this. Also a manager, qnd I'll even find the coverage if someone needs a day off. I know how nerve wracking it is as an employee calling around asking someone to cover your shift, its a lot easier for me to send a mass text. Incidentally, the staff seem much more willing to pick up shifts this way.

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[-] Fennario@lemmy.world 174 points 1 year ago

It’s legal but insane. Your wife should start looking for a new job.

[-] zalack@kbin.social 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm not sure it would be legal if they were forced to reveal medical information.

[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 31 points 1 year ago

Christ are we going to be having "hippa"(sic) arguments again?

You can refuse to answer - I sure would. Or just say you have an appointment. Being asked is not illegal.

Then I assume the jerk will just deny your request.

[-] zalack@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago

Right, but if you're request for denied for something medically necessary unless you revealed it, you went anyway (because it's necessary), and then you got fired... That feels like it shouldn't be legal (obviously that doesn't mean that it isn't).

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[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

Correct, non sick leave is usually considered discretionary time off; meaning, it’s at the discretion of the manager to approve it.

That said, this manager sounds like a nut job. It’s legal to be a hard ass, but people don’t have to remain working for you.

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[-] dandroid@dandroid.app 96 points 1 year ago

I would decline to answer, and if pressed, say something vague, such as, "a medical procedure". That should be enough for most people, but if it they keep pressing, I would come up with something embarrassing, such as, "I need the time off to get my anal prolapse taken care of." Then be upset that you had to disclose private medical information and ask to speak to HR.

[-] shanjezi@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

Despite the fact that, as another user pointed out, restaurants rarely have an HR department, it is important to remember that HR exists solely to protect the company. They are not there to advocate for your rights as an employee. If you think your rights have been violated at work, you should contact your state's labor department (assuming you are US based). My state even has a nice website that outlines your rights as an employee and a form you can submit if your rights have been violated.

[-] neekz0r@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago

100% this. A former coworker was fired a month ago because he filed an HR complaint about his boss, because the boss was being an asshole to him (according to co worker).

This is the same boss who joked about beating his wife and kicking his dog in a meeting, so I'm fairly certain it's true.

HR is NEVER your friend.

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[-] dandroid@dandroid.app 9 points 1 year ago

That's exactly the point. HR is there to protect the company from you suing them for forcing you to provide personal medical information that you weren't comfortable sharing.

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[-] Chrisosaur@startrek.website 32 points 1 year ago

I don’t know if you were addressing the specific case mentioned, but if someone has a softball game they want to go to, and they say they have a medical procedure to take care of, that could easily be grounds for termination.

Best answer I can think of is to unionize and negotiate a CA that includes shift trade rights. Short term, I don’t think there’s much you can do if the company wants to be a dick.

[-] DreadPirateShawn 18 points 1 year ago

Mental health is a medical issue. Ergo any vacation is medical.

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[-] bipmi@beehaw.org 23 points 1 year ago

In my experience most restaurants dont even have HR lmao. My mileage obviously varies but I have worked a few food industry jobs, and exactly 0 had any HR person other than the managers and assistant managers themselves

[-] Threadsdeadbaby@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago

I believe HR in this instance would be "calling corporate."

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[-] Cylusthevirus@kbin.social 79 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Always give your boss as little information as possible. They aren't entitled to it and are much more likely to use it against you.

[-] lps2@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago

As a manager, I don't give a flying fuck why my team wants to take time off. Wanna sit on your ass and play video games for a week straight, cool all good by me : just let me know the dates, check their PTO balance, and ensure it doesn't conflict with key deliverables and if so either work out a plan for coverage or suggest they look for a different time to take off if possible

[-] AshDene@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

Yeah, I don't know what Colorado's laws are on this in general, but even if it's technically legal it seems like a huge risk that someone is going to plausibly allege that given the specific facts denying them time off was race/religion/family status/... discrimination. It might be legal (don't know), but it's a stupid policy for a number of reasons.

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[-] ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 67 points 1 year ago

I have a co-worker who says her reason for the time off request is always gynecology related. Bosses never ask questions.

[-] Blizzard@lemmy.zip 31 points 1 year ago

"Good morning boss, I need two weeks off for gynecology-related activities".

[-] Awwab@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago

You could be having a baby, that falls into the scope.

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[-] jsveiga@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 year ago

I need a leave for my pap exam.

Denied.

Why?

You're a man.

Gender discrimination reported to corporate headquarters.

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[-] zik@lemmy.world 45 points 1 year ago

"Personal reasons". If they continue to pry just say it's extemely personal and hopefully they'll back off.

[-] meteorswarm@beehaw.org 45 points 1 year ago

One way you might resolve this is to get everybody talking about it without the boss there. I bet nobody likes the policy. Maybe everyone would agree to not give a reason, or to give the same reason that is an obvious lie?

[-] CurlyWurlies4All@prxs.site 58 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Maybe if all the employees presented a united front. Like a sort of joint group of just the employees. Together in a union of sorts.

[-] brimnac@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

Maybe individually they do not have a lot of power, but together could be strong?

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[-] ristoril_zip@lemmy.zip 43 points 1 year ago

"show me in my employment contract where it says I have to disclose that"

[-] acunasdaddy@lemmy.world 47 points 1 year ago

If this is in the US employment contracts are virtually nonexistent.

If a policy doesn’t discriminate against a protected class, it’s pretty much legal. Your recourse is to find another job.

[-] SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago

We need legal advice communities

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[-] Mugmoor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 41 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

In Ontario that's perfectly legal. It's also legal for you to decline to answer that question.I worked in kitchens for about 15 years and came across that problem at about 1/3 of the places I worked. Not super uncommon, the industry is filled with flakes.

Keep in mind in most jurisdictions Restaurants get special labour rules.

"special labour rules"

Seems every industry has their own... I work in IT and we get shafted as well

[-] GroteStreet@aussie.zone 11 points 1 year ago

It's like a "special military operations", in the workplace!

I think I would simply comply, maliciously.

What's my reason? I'm going on a journey in alignment with my religion. Try telling me I can't follow my religious beliefs on the record.

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[-] Maerman@lemmy.ml 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don't live in the US, so I cannot comment on the legality of this. However, I will advise an informal policy of malicious compliance. If the manager asks why someone needs to take a day off, that someone should reply with incredibly graphic medical issues, whether real or fake. Think 'I'm shitting blood and I need to see a doctor,' or something like that. Keep it up for a few months and see how management responds.

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[-] pinwurm@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

Whats it say in the employee handbook regarding time off?

It’s not the manager’s job to decide if someone’s personal obligations are necessary or not. It’s their job to assure there is coverage and the work is complete.

If the employee is abusing the shift-change timeoff policy, that is a different story.

If the manager is the owner, it may be a good idea for your wife to freshen her resume.

[-] kava@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Of course it's legal. Why wouldn't it be?

She should approach it by either following the stupid rules or finding a new job

[-] jocanib@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

Of course it’s legal. Why wouldn’t it be?

I'm assuming you're USian?

The question almost anywhere else in the wealthy world is why would it be legal? The manager does not need to know therefore the manager has no right to ask.

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[-] StarkillerX42@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago

You should definitely provide fake answers. Make them medical and sexual in nature. "Hi boss, I'm getting a vasectomy, Bob's going to cover my shift." There's nothing wrong about this, and it maximizes the chance your boss will do or say something actually illegal because it's sexual discrimination. Colorado is an at-will state, so your employer has a ton of leeway, but discrimination is something where they still have to follow employment laws.

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[-] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A lot of incorrect answers here as to the legality - this is not a blanket 100% definitely legal situation. In the US, the boss can certainly ask why. But, if he denies leave for something that is discriminatory then that is an adverse employment action under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act if they employ at least 15 employees.

For instance, if he doesn't allow leave to someone to observe a religious holiday, but allows others to go on leave under similar circumstances, that could be illegal.

A lot of things could be discriminatory. Its stupid of him to ask for specifics beyond medical vs personal.

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[-] magnetosphere@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What bullshit. I’d make something up every time.

Whether their request is legal or not, my personal life isn’t my employer’s business, and certainly doesn’t revolve around their “approval”.

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this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2023
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