175
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

Edit: It looks like the argument here is that the US is not calling for an instant ceasefire, but instead saying that one is very important to have. China and Russia say it should be immediate. The US also tied it to hostage talks.

Another resolution is in the works to call for an immediate ceasefire, but the US is expected to veto it because they believe it could endanger hostage talks.

all 42 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] Joncash2@lemmy.ml 47 points 1 year ago

So I want to be upfront and say I don't really agree with their argument, but I do understand it. What Russia and China are saying is by tying the ceasefire to the release of hostages is unfair to the Palestinian side. This is because they lose all leverage and then would be easy targets for Israel who doesn't seem to mind bombing Palestinian civilians.

My issue is that technically the only reason their bombing is because of the hostages and perhaps if they release the hostages peace talks can begin. The opposite of that argument is it will allow Israel to be even more aggressive after the temporary cease fire is ended.

I don't know, but that's the argument.

[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 40 points 1 year ago

Israel is bombing to exterminate the Palestinians so they can claim all the land. It's pure genocide.

[-] Hyperreality@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

Pity China and Russia are blocking an immediate cease fire.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

An immediate temporary ceasefire.

[-] YeetPics@mander.xyz 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Permanently blocking an immediate temporary ceasefire permanently forever because the US is involved and they're not over the ussr failing hilariously in 1990 or being outmaneuvered for at least 60 years technologically in China's case.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

That's some massive copium. Not that I'm a fan of China or Russia, but there's a reason Hamas has been rejecting temporary ceasefires.

[-] Revan343@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 year ago

technically the only reason their bombing is because of the hostages

That's not the reason, it's just the excuse

[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I can understand it but treating the hostages as merely bargaining chips ignores that they are innocent civilians caught in this idiotic conflict through no fault of their own. Hamas has no right to use the hostages as a tool to protect themselves.

The real issue with this ceasefire is that linking the ceasefire to the release of the hostages tacitly endorses continued atrocities by IDF if and when the demand for release is ignored.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I can understand it but treating the hostages as merely bargaining chips ignores that they are innocent civilians caught in this idiotic conflict through no fault of their own. Hamas has no right to use the hostages as a tool to protect themselves.

They have the right to use the hostages to protect Gazans. Don't blame the player, blame the game.

[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 year ago

This is a slightly more interesting moral argument but I think in general I would have to disagree. Particularly because it doesn’t seem like the hostages have done much if anything to blunt Israel’s aggression.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They haven't, but we're not talking about now. We're talking about later when this mess dies down. The hostages are likely to make a difference in Gaza's post-war fate. And given the stakes (Israel has been pretty clear they want to re"settle" Gaza) I'd say while the hostages are victims and deserve better we can't blame Hamas for holding onto them.

Edit: The hostages are also likely to be involved in things like how much food and other goods Gazans are allowed through the blockade, trying to get Israel to not do random airstrikes and other such things.

[-] NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago

I think y'all are missing the elephant in the room here. This is a resolution that demands Hamas hand over all their hostages for a temporary ceasefire, with no mention of the 3000+ hostages Israel still holds.

My issue is that technically the only reason their bombing is because of the hostages and perhaps if they release the hostages peace talks can begin.

This might work somewhere else, but not with Israel. Hamas isn't good, but they're for better or worse one of the organizations with the most experience at negotiating with Israel and getting actual results (small as they may be). And Hamas knows there's no way in hell Israel would just quietly leave after being handed over all the Palestinian side's leverage when they've been very clear they want to re"settle" Gaza and rule it like (or worse than) they rule the West Bank.

BTW I'm relying on reporting so if anyone can find the whole thing please link it.

[-] Rapidcreek@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

I find it incomprehensible that anyone could justify the holding of innocent hostages.

[-] Keeponstalin@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Agreed, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, including Children, have been taken hostage and tortured by Israels Military Courts

[-] Kalysta@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Do we honestly think any of the hostages are still alive at this point? Gaza has already been reduced to a pile of rubble, and there is widespread starvation in Gaza already. And we know Israel shot three of the hostages a couple months back.

[-] DoomBot5@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Historically ceasfires have been used by Hamas to resupply rockets for the next rocket barrage on Israeli civilians. A ceasfire without hostages being released would be nothing more than a failure on the Israeli side, so would not be accepted.

[-] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

America posturing by submitting Israel's demand for a 6 week ceasefire in exchange for all hostages and then continuing their Genocide. Fuck Biden.

Let's not forget the real story.

The United States had vetoed three previous resolutions demanding a stop to fighting in Gaza, arguing that the measures could disrupt hostage negotiations and staunchly defending Israel’s right to defend itself after the Hamas-led attack of Oct. 7. In each of those earlier Security Council votes, the United States was the only vote against the resolutions. Russia and Britain abstained from the first vote, in October, and Britain abstained from the votes in December and February.

New video by Democracy Now on this facade: https://youtu.be/Ggpc9QHc_vk

[-] cupcakezealot 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

geee it's almost as if things changed from october 7th to now that could lead to the us changing their position.

[-] SevenOfWine@startrek.website 11 points 1 year ago
[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Not quite, it looks like the US resolution just calls for the importance of a ceasefire, and Russia/China are saying there should be an immediate ceasefire.

[-] Ranvier@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago

No, in the article it states the US resolution called for an "immediate" cease fire as well.

It looks the disagreement is over the word "sustained cease fire" vs "permanent cease fire." The US resolution also calls for release of the hostages as a part of the ceasefire, whereas in the other version the hostages are not linked to the cease fire.

[-] Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

Maybe they demand permanent instead of “sustained”

this post was submitted on 22 Mar 2024
175 points (100.0% liked)

World News

47532 readers
2359 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS