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Russia and China Veto U.S.-Led Cease-Fire Resolution at U.N.
(www.nytimes.com)
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this post was submitted on 22 Mar 2024
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So I want to be upfront and say I don't really agree with their argument, but I do understand it. What Russia and China are saying is by tying the ceasefire to the release of hostages is unfair to the Palestinian side. This is because they lose all leverage and then would be easy targets for Israel who doesn't seem to mind bombing Palestinian civilians.
My issue is that technically the only reason their bombing is because of the hostages and perhaps if they release the hostages peace talks can begin. The opposite of that argument is it will allow Israel to be even more aggressive after the temporary cease fire is ended.
I don't know, but that's the argument.
Israel is bombing to exterminate the Palestinians so they can claim all the land. It's pure genocide.
Pity China and Russia are blocking an immediate cease fire.
An immediate temporary ceasefire.
Permanently blocking an immediate temporary ceasefire permanently forever because the US is involved and they're not over the ussr failing hilariously in 1990 or being outmaneuvered for at least 60 years technologically in China's case.
That's some massive copium. Not that I'm a fan of China or Russia, but there's a reason Hamas has been rejecting temporary ceasefires.
It's disgusting. Goes to show they don't actually care about Palestinians and probably don't even think this is a genocide.
I mean, if they genuinely cared or thought this was a genocide, why are they now defending China and Russia blocking an immediate ceasefire that would at least temporarily stop Palestinian suffering?
How entirely predictable that the same kind of people who make excuses for Russia's role in the genocide in Darfur, Russia's role in Syria, Russian war crimes in Ukraine, and China's treatment of the Uyghurs, care more about scoring points against the US than ending the war in Gaza.
Because freeing the hostages for a 6-week ceasefire would be effectively approving Israel's planned attack of Rafah. They literally say that. There's a reason Hamas has been rejecting this same deal over and over again.
They're right, though. The proposed resolution put a ceasefire wholly contingent on Hamas giving up their only bargaining chip (hostages) instead of outright calling for an immediate ceasefire.
Had it passed, Hamas would have simply ignored it and Israel would have felt justified in continuing its murderous ethnic cleansing campaign.
You still fail to call HAMAS for what they are while arguing in defense for them. Why is it so hard? HAMAS are terrorists that rape and murder innocent people. There. Should not be too hard to agree with that, right?
I see you only care for civilians on one side since you keep moving the goalpost to avoid answering a simple question.
That's not the reason, it's just the excuse
I think y'all are missing the elephant in the room here. This is a resolution that demands Hamas hand over all their hostages for a temporary ceasefire, with no mention of the 3000+ hostages Israel still holds.
This might work somewhere else, but not with Israel. Hamas isn't good, but they're for better or worse one of the organizations with the most experience at negotiating with Israel and getting actual results (small as they may be). And Hamas knows there's no way in hell Israel would just quietly leave after being handed over all the Palestinian side's leverage when they've been very clear they want to re"settle" Gaza and rule it like (or worse than) they rule the West Bank.
BTW I'm relying on reporting so if anyone can find the whole thing please link it.
I can understand it but treating the hostages as merely bargaining chips ignores that they are innocent civilians caught in this idiotic conflict through no fault of their own. Hamas has no right to use the hostages as a tool to protect themselves.
The real issue with this ceasefire is that linking the ceasefire to the release of the hostages tacitly endorses continued atrocities by IDF if and when the demand for release is ignored.
They have the right to use the hostages to protect Gazans. Don't blame the player, blame the game.
This is a slightly more interesting moral argument but I think in general I would have to disagree. Particularly because it doesn’t seem like the hostages have done much if anything to blunt Israel’s aggression.
They haven't, but we're not talking about now. We're talking about later when this mess dies down. The hostages are likely to make a difference in Gaza's post-war fate. And given the stakes (Israel has been pretty clear they want to re"settle" Gaza) I'd say while the hostages are victims and deserve better we can't blame Hamas for holding onto them.
Edit: The hostages are also likely to be involved in things like how much food and other goods Gazans are allowed through the blockade, trying to get Israel to not do random airstrikes and other such things.
I find it incomprehensible that anyone could justify the holding of innocent hostages.
Agreed, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, including Children, have been taken hostage and tortured by Israels Military Courts
Do we honestly think any of the hostages are still alive at this point? Gaza has already been reduced to a pile of rubble, and there is widespread starvation in Gaza already. And we know Israel shot three of the hostages a couple months back.
Historically ceasfires have been used by Hamas to resupply rockets for the next rocket barrage on Israeli civilians. A ceasfire without hostages being released would be nothing more than a failure on the Israeli side, so would not be accepted.