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submitted 1 year ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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[-] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 65 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I remember debating with my buddy (he's pro-Russia) about the Ruso-Ukrainian war when it broke out, and my saying how Russia invading Ukraine because of Nazi gangs is a pretty flim flam excuse for a land grab. "It would be like the US invading Mexico and seizing territory because of the drug cartels", I said. Why is my country this way.

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

Pretty cringe that you know someone who parrots Russian govt talking points though

[-] another@discuss.online 18 points 1 year ago

Every ML and hexbear

[-] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago

I guess. He's an Anarchocapitalist on every other day of the week. I just enjoy arguing amicably with people, and he does too, so our friendship works.

[-] jeffw@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

Ancap and staunch defender of authoritarian regimes?

[-] Samvega 16 points 1 year ago

Sound about right to me. Ancap is about capitalism with no limits, so it's an authoritarianism of money.

[-] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

100% agreed. I'm more on the anarcho-commie/left libertarian side of things myself, so I recognize money and markets as being forces that are just as coercive and abusive as any government.

[-] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

Tell me about it. Anyway, he's not under any illusions about how fucking backwards both the US and Russia's governments are, but he really believes that Russia's in the right on the matter of the war because there really are capital N Nazis that really are up to Nazi shit in Ukraine. As fucked as that genuinely is, imo I think that's just the flimsy pretense being used to justify a land grab, which is why I used the analogy of the US invading Mexico under the flimsy pretense of stopping the cartels. Well, here we fucking go, I guess.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

He does know about the Wagner Group, right? And why it's named that?

[-] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah, he actually runs a social group that managed to get a video response from Prigozhin shortly before Prigozhin's dollar store rebellion.

[-] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

So he just doesn't get it at all, or doesn't think it's a big deal when Russia does it?

[-] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

I can't speak for him, but I think everyone does some handwaving for their team. Unfortunately, the Ruso-Ukrainian war is practically a meme of Slavic conflict with all the shitty stuff happening, and it's got everyone's arms about broken with hand waving.

[-] mecfs@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

I used to have friends like that.

Don’t count them as “friends” these people are friends until you become, gay, disabled etc. then they spit in your face.

It’s definitely a priviledge to be able to be friends with bigots.

[-] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

He's gay, and he's always been there in a pinch. He's not a bigot, he's big on the Anarcho side, just wants people to not be interfered with and thinks a lot about how the government interferes with people a lot.

For context, I lived in the south when for a few years around the time Obama ran for president and met actual KKK members without their hoods. I'm white, so I did have the privilege of getting to immunize myself against their bullshit right from the source. Someone else I know came out as both trans male and an actual Nazi in almost the same blow. They claim to be an ironic Nazi, but that experience taught me that there's no such thing. I'm grateful for the encounter, as it gave me time to learn to recognize the enemy, but I don't speak with them anymore. I don't break bread with that type as a matter of policy, life is too short for that. I just learn enough to spot their shit and move on.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Why is my country this way.

Wars are traditionally pitched as "defensive" from their native soil. Vietnam was justified by the Gulf of Tonkin incident. WW2 was justified by Pearl Harbor. Iraq and Afghanistan were justified by 9/11. Or Benghazi was for Libya. Etc, etc. Now Trump is arguing that cartel violence on the border justifies invading Mexico. Only a matter of time before they can point to a Missing White Woman or a drug bust or shoot out that can be used to justify moving troops over the border.

Russia isn't any less immune to this logic, and the War in the Donbas was as hot an issue to capitalize on as anything Americans experienced with Panama in the 80s or Cuba in the 60s.

Same with China and Taiwan. Or the civil wars in Sudan and Ethiopia. This isn't in any way a uniquely American problem.

this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2024
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