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Still Got It
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2024
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But you want to say he's not good. Fucking lol.
Increased drilling permits, massive tariffs on green energy technologies, being a critical part in creating the $1.7 trillion student loan debt problem, was one of the biggest "tough on crime" proponents who imprisoned many of those people, blocked the rail strike, and infrastructure and CHIPS bills have just been maintenance and throwing money at corporations and hoping they make things better. The credit for drug price controls goes to Bernie Sanders who has done more good as a senator than Biden has as a president.
Him giving a bit of relief to problems he created doesn't make him good. Him throwing money at corporations doesn't make him good. Biden has done some good things, but his achievements are overstated, inflated, and are far away from what would be considered good overall.
Ah so the "the entire world didn't turn on its head in 2 years1!!1 I demand literally everything changes in the 2 years1!" Sorry but people that talk like this have absolutely no idea how much there is to change. Like how much industry, and policies, and fucking everything there is to change. Tariffs sure, but I don't really blame politicians for wanting to make domestic industry. This is not a one and done issue, this is a massive industry that will be going forever (and even more as we see AI increasing electricity demands). And helping the student debt isn't enough, you demand a time machine to go back in time and fix it back then too! Ditto for crime, more time machine! Fucking lol, it's changed from wanting everything to change in 2 years to demanding a literal fucking time machine. Rail union https://youtu.be/EM6jMtG_MB8 Oh maintenance is not good enough anymore! That means Dems bad! Fucking lol. Helping grow domestic industry is now a bad thing, fucking lol. Another important and growing industry. Drug control prices is now not an act of congress! Fucking lol.
I can't fucking believe the mental gymnastics that you just went through to try to say Dems bad1!1!
And it's 2 years because that's how long he had the house of representatives.
Is this the conversation where I have to say how long Dems have had all 3 of the House of Reps, Senate, and Presidency? Because you need all 3 to do much of anything. Sure. Out of the last 24 years, Dems have had all of them for 4 years. The first 2 years of Obama, and the first 2 years of Biden. That's right, they've had control for 4 years out of the last 24 fucking years. And you wonder why progress is slow?
Throw in some more 1s to give your strawman more power
Having some fun, but they are not strawmans. Expecting/demanding that literally the entire world and everything in it turns on a dime is what this guy wants.
This is upper elementary school strawmans. I aint seen people using 1s and !s to try and make someone sound dumb since early 4chan.
Not strawmans, again he is literally demanding the entire world change end over end in 2 years. Are you/we going to play repeat now? Sounds like fun.
Every part of that is a strawman. There are zero demands in the post, no references to the entire world or 2 years, in fact his specific accusations you are intentionally strawmanning away from span his very lengthy career as a politician. Do you know what a strawman is, are you aware you almost exclusively address arguments with a strawman? Its ingrained into how you type even
Nope not a strawman, that's what he demands when he says the world hasn't changed in 2 years wrt drilling. The time frame is 2 years, as explained before. See repeat, you say yes, I say no.
"When he says" followed by nothing that they said, is a strawman
"When he says" followed by a paraphrase of what he said, or followed by the underlying logic of what he said, is not a strawman.
Sure. But youve given neither. Im not being cheeky with technicalities like "oh he used a synonym but he didnt use that exact word". Nothing alluding to a demand, nothing alluding to the entire world, nothing alluding to a 2 year timeframe. Youve made all of it up.
I didn't make any of it up at all.
Oh its someone else now. Alright you gonna try explaining how the guy making specific criticisms of Bidens own actions was actually demanding the entire world change in 2 years? Throw in some stutters and 1s and !s to help sell it.
It's worse than that, he claimed that he was responsible for Republican policies that he tried to make better1111!!!1!1!1! Lol.
Trump is soooooo much worse, which is the whole point.
Man you havent been keeping track of what Bidens been up to, these arent republican policies this is Biden. Like not a single republican voted in favor of the bill that opened up more federal land for oil and gas drilling.
Trump is worse, but you guys have lost your minds and tunnel vision past that same guy agreeing with you that trump is worse
"Just because he clears the incredibly low bar of being better than trump, doesn’t mean he’s actually good."
Read shit, quote people, stop strawmanning.
Ah sorry, yes.
"Finish them" - Nikki Hayley - written on an Israeli bomb, in front of the IDF.
"Dictator on day one" - Trump
More repeat? Are we having fun yet? Not a strawman when it actually captures what he says, he wants the world to overhaul on a dime.
Im noticing a severe lack of quotes of what they said to help support your claim.
Oh the strawman accusation isn't working out so you demand quotations now. Oh wait you didn't say the specific word "demand" so I can't say you just demanded, according to your logic. So again, it captured what he said. Fun times yet?
No, quotes would be the easy way of proving youre not strawmanning. If they said what you claim they said that would be my immediate go to. But my brain is wired to address what people say, not strawmen
Again, it captured what he said. Thus not a strawman. You even have other people pointing that out.
Just like how you didn't try to dispute me saying you demanded this or that, when you didn't say the specific word "demand". It captured what you said.
If your brain is so hard coded that you can only see specific words and can't see what captures what he said, then you have one hell of a hard coding. Frankly, that's on you.
If it captured what they said you could show what was being captured. Like here, you mentioned drilling, so heres what they actually said "Increased drilling permits" is this what youre capturing in saying theyre demanding the world to change in 2 years, or is that elsewhere in the comment?
I addressed each point as they came along, you can follow it crystal clear. You just figured it out, even though it was crystal clear back then and in all my comments since. So no I don't have to go back and show you again. Look how much fun we've had back and forth when you either already knew, or could easily figure it out. So easy that, shocker, you saw what point of his I captured. So at this point I think you are discussing in bad faith and/or trolling.
So we can say it again since it was so easy you figured it out, yes it captured what they said. You even have other people pointing it out. Just like you didn't dispute me saying you demanded this or that. Thus not a strawman. Are we having fun?
Man you really cant respond to what someone says can you? So back to this quote "Increased drilling permits”, which is not a demand, is not about the whole world, its a targeted criticism of a specific action Biden took.
Lol he implicitly demanded a (likely notable) decrease in drilling permits. I captured what he said, thus not strawman. Are you really are that hard coded that you can't see anything except the exact words, so you demand (see? that's what you're doing and that's what I captured) that he said he exact word "demand". Frankly your hardcoding is on you. I'll keep pointing out that it's not a strawman as long as you need.
Its amazing that i specifically said the opposite of what youre strawmanning me with now.
When you say implicit, understand your strawman is starting there, coming up with something that wasnt alluded to in any way to attack instead of what was actually said or meant.
Where did that quote come from? You didn't say that to me.
So not only do you demand I go back and find quotations for something or other, you demand (yes I'm saying that) that I go hunt through your comments to other people and incorporate them into discussions with you. AND you very, very likely just saw that was said to someone else when you went back to find that.
Fucking wow and fucking lol. Yeah you graduated big time to bad faith discussion and/or trolling.
And we're back to: I captured what he said. Thus not a strawman. Because yes it did capture what he said. You even have other people that tell you that (that's where you went back to find that quote). You really are so hard coded huh that you demand the exact words and exact words only. Again frankly that's on you.
yeah it was someone else. I got confused because of how insistent you've been that Im demanding exact wording, when thats the only instance of me mentioning exact wording in the whole conversation. You just coincidentally strawmanned it into existence. It is still proof against what you're trying to strawman me with.
huh, I was expecting at least another post or two before you discarded what both of us now know I said that disproves this strawman.
Im gonna go ahead and bring back up you still havent attempted to quote the guy to support your claim. or quote me somewhere saying Im demanding exact wording. anything other than just claiming you're right without making any attempt to show it.
That's a strange apology.
You have been demanding exact wording the whole time. Oh is this where you demand I go back and find quotations of you saying "demand"? Lol. Captures what you said. Just like I captured what the other guy said. Thus not a strawman against him or against you. Sorry to say but you are horrible bad faith. Scratch that, I conclude you are trolling. I recognize your name, we talked before and I guess you didn't how that ended so you decided to troll me.
Yeah you just showed it again, you demand (yes) I go back and quote. I think you just want me to waste time, because you are trolling. This is where you say strawman, but I'm really comfortable calling it out now that this has continued to today and the little stunt you just pulled.
Yawn. I captured what he said. I captured what you said. Thus not a strawman.
I expect you're trying to get me to block you, so that I can't see your comments and reply in the future so that your comments go unchallenged. Pretty sure that's it. This is where you say strawman again, but don't worry I won't block you. I'm happy to keep going and keep replying to all your comments in the future.
Way too much strawmanning to dig through, so lets start there
Start where? Your accusations of strawmans? That's what I can gather.
Yawn. I captured what he said. Captured what you said. So not a strawman.
I notice you don't dispute your actions.
The quote
Ah you're back to demanding (yes) a quote because you are so hard coded that you can't see I captured what he said. Well I think you can because you figured it out and said it all, but that doesn't work so well when you want to play the fool and troll huh.
I captured what he said, Thus not a strawman. Yawn.
Biden has been president almost as long as Trump has, yet when Trump was president, we apparently were moved from merely doing okay (after EIGHT years of Obama) to being on the brink of a fascist takeover. Meanwhile within almost the same span of time under Biden, things haven't noticeably improved. I'm not asking for a time machine, I'm just saying that you need to judge a person by their actions. For the vast majority of Biden's career, he's been milquetoast or outright harmful. What makes you think he has completely reversed his ways just by becoming president?
If you're serious about wanting to fight fascism, you're going to have to fight much more aggressively than how Biden is now, who isn't really fighting at all, just being "not Trump" (but still like Trump in some aspects, like continuing his trade war with China). On the topic of this post, Obama had two years to protect reproductive rights, he even said, while he was campaigning, that he would sign the legislation within the first 100 days in office, but he did not.
A reminder that the bill isn't new: "The bill was introduced to the Congress in 1989, 1993,[2] 2004[3] and 2007 (H.R. 1964/S. 1173)." Given such repeated actions of pretending to push for something but then not doing it when they have the power, what makes you think democrats are willing to actually push for more permanent solutions when they can just keep using such issues as a political bargaining chip?
Ok lots to cover here.
First: is that Dems need all 3 houses (house of representatives, senate, and presidency) to accomplish much of anything. Progress on the left requires actual work. You know things actually pass. That means you need all three of House of Representatives, Senate, and Presidency.
The right: They don't need to actually do any work. They don't need to actually pass much. They can just sit on their ass and block things. This is partly how they stacked the court, they blocked Obama's Supreme court appointment (only requires senate to block, and they were gleeful to do so) and then got their own pick under Trump.
The most the GOP wants to do is repeal what was already passed, and give tax breaks. It takes fuck all effort to do that. They get one house and they can demand tax breaks or they shut down the government. Or they try to repeal the ACA. They didn't write a well thought out replacement which would have required actual work and thought. All they want to do is repeal. It takes fuck all effort to do that.
Progress requires actual effort, work, and time. Stagnation (or regression) requires next to nothing. Don't overlook this concept.
Second: How long did Obama have all 3? Obama had that for two years. Should I all caps that since you all caps eight? Sure: Obama had all 3 for TWO years.
On to Biden. How long did Biden have all 3? He had it for 2 years.
Add that up. Dems have had all 3 for 4 years of the last 24 years. Read that again, they have had control for 4 years out of the last 24 fucking years. Should I all caps that? Sure: FOUR years out of the last 24 years.
Want to add Bill Clinton? Sure. Then it goes to 6 years out of the last 32 years.
Want to add Bush senior and reagan? Sure. Then it goes to 6 years out of the last 44 fucking years.
And that can still be filibustered. Want to discuss filibuster proof majority? Obama had that for 4 months. Not 4 years, 4 MONTHS.
Ok third I guess. Obama's 4 MONTH period to do things. He spent all the political capital and time on healthcare ACA. Spend time on the new thing progressive item that desperately needs to be done, that the country really, really needs. Or essentially back up what was already ruled a constitutional right. Hmmm. Hmmmmmmmmm. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. I barely blame him for tackling the new pressing item that had not been done before.
Again, Obama having all 3 for two years means he should've been able to sign a bill for reproductive rights like he said he would in the first 100 days of his term. Last time I checked, 100 days is less than two years. I'm not buying the "it's easier to stagnate or regress" point when democrats don't put much effort into blocking republicans. Also, things like not supporting genocide, which should be an easy win and is as simple as not sending weapons and funding, has instead a ton of effort put in by Biden and team to push through weapons and funding while running a PR campaign pretending they're doing anything for Palestinians while also forcefully shutting down protests.
Democrats could've nuked the filibuster, but they didn't, because they don't want to actually fight things. They like it when they're blocked because they can pretend they're trying without the threat (to their donors) of having to actually do something. That's why magically whenever democrats get a majority, they have one or two senators turn around and block their efforts. Democrats actively fund the campaigns of such senators while primarying actually progressive candidates.
It would have been filibustered. So no he didn't have 2 years, he had 4 MONTHS. Just carrying on your all caps. He spent it on Healthcare.
You could say they could get rid of the filibuster, and yeah the desire to keep it now is strange. But back then Obama wanted to unify, and get the country back on track, and work together, and all the jazz hands things. He was not keen on overthrowing long established processes (imagine the conspiracy theories if he had, they were bad with him just jazz hands). He wanted to work together because he had another 6 years to go and likely wouldn't have all 3 for those 6 years. So he wanted to come off as reasonable and could be worked with and all that. I barely blame him for that. Who knew that the GOP's heads would explode and they would become obstructionist to that extent.
GOP by and large doesn't have much legislation they actually want to pass. So there's very little to block. This is the nature of it.
Here's an old conversation I had (part of which I used but makes more sense in full).
What the GOP wants is lack of progress. They want to hit the big giant pause button on society. They want to block progress from happening. That's why the GOP benefits more from blocking things. What the Dems want is actual progress - new bills, new laws, new measures. That requires legislation to actually pass. So no, it doesn't work the same both ways.
The most the GOP wants to do is repeal what was already passed, and give tax breaks. It takes fuck all effort to do that. They get one house and they can demand tax breaks or they shut down the government. Or they try to repeal the ACA. They didn't write a well thought out replacement lol, all they want to do is repeal.
To actually write and pass progressive legislation takes a ton of actual work, effort, support, and time. And all 3 houses to pass it.
Ok Israel.
The funny thing (that I see) with Israel is that support for Israel is a generational thing. Guess what generation Biden is in.
Want a new generation in office? Guess how we do that? By voting for the left. Because when they lose they both go to the center and run their old candidates with their supposed wisdom and ability to win and all that. Want progress? Show them that it's safe to go left and that they won't lose when they do. (Is this where you say but Hillary? Then I say Obama lost the house in years 3 and 4. And again lost the house in years 5 and 6. And lost both the house and senate in years 7 and 8. No wonder the party thought they needed to be moderate to get voters. The thanks the party got for the ACA was immediately losing the house of reps.)
Yes, but other than that, what have the Romans ever done for us?