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Biden introduces Zelenskiy as ‘President Putin’ at Nato summit
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2024
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We just discussed how it doesn't, if they weren't planning on voting for Biden in the first place. If Biden wants more leftist votes, he can appeal to Leftists instead of Zionists and Neoliberals.
If you weren't planning to vote for Biden in the first place then you are not very leftist. He's the leftmost candidate of the two than are in the race.
Not voting for Biden is a tacit endorsement of Trump. You chose to have turbo-genocide instead of genocide-light.
You don't like that Biden did a publicity stunt building that pier and just brought one day worth of food in two months? Just wait until Trump decides to cover Gaza in rat poison.
You don't like that Biden keeps selling arms to Israel? How about sending a carrier group and bombing those refugee camps directly?
See, that would be true if Biden could be considered anything other than firmly right wing. A vote for Biden doesn't move America to the left, it maintains the right wing status quo. Leftists have had to work outside the electoral process, historically.
Guess the huge portion of people who don't vote each year secretly want Trump.
If they weren't voting for Biden in the first place, and instead for, say, PSL or the Greens, Biden never had their vote in the first place. Secondly, 180,000 Palestinians are dead, if you're comfortable with calling that "genocide-light" then that's sickening. Even if Trump would double weapon shipments or something, we are still in full-blown genocide mode currently.
Trump is evil, yes, but even you have to realize he would still be working with the existing US state department. The President has the power to stop or continue the genocide, yes, but covering Gaza in Rat Poison? That's nit going to happen, especially because Israel is a Settler-Colonial state. They are taking land to live in.
That would be insanely monstrous and cruel, and would likely turn the rest of the International community against America.
A vote for Biden doesn't move America to the left?
Insulin price cap, Medicare protection, student debt forgiveness, weed re-scheduling, etc.
Compare that to defundingthe the EPA, mass deportations, one TRILLION dollars in tax breaks for the rich, etc.
If you don't think 180.000 dead Palestinians is better than 360.000 dead Palestinians, that's a you problem.
And do i need to remind you of fucking Iraq? Guantanamo? Did America ever care about the international community and their opinion?
Nope, we are currently a far-right country under Biden.
Genocide, more aggressive crackdowns on immigrants than even under Trump, the recent anti-trans bill passing through a dem controlled senate, and more. What you listed isn't bad, but when taken in context with the entirety of Biden's platform it's clear he's a Neoliberal ghoul.
Trump being more right wing doesn't mean electing Biden is a move to the left, it means maintaining Biden's right-wing agenda. If Biden gets reelected he isn't going to go to the left, he is going to continue pushing the DNC party line.
Genocide is a non-starter, and unless Biden begins trying to appeal to his base and pull back the genocide, we will see well over 360,000 dead Palestinians under Biden.
Voters tend to care, so being warhawkish and pushing genocide disengages voters.
Again, my point is crystal clear: blaming voters for being disengaged by Biden's warmongering and genocide, rather than blaming Biden and the DNC for maintaining their unpopular positions, is pointless. Focus on what can actually keep Trump from office, ie forcing the DNC to begin appealing more to voters.
It doesn't seem like you actually care if Trump takes office or not. That, or the current level of genocide is acceptable to you.
A move from extreme right to right is a move to the left.
No it isn"t, it's a move from extreme right to right. Moving from far-right populism to Neoliberalism is not closer to Socialism, it's Capitalism in a different form. Politics and economics are not really a spectrum eith quantifiable numbers, they are positions, the spectrum is just shorthand.
Secondly, we are already right wing. Electing Biden again is not going to move him or his positions leftward, it's stagnating in the right wing.
So, left.
No, I just explained that politics isn't as simple as a 1 dimensional line. Voting for continued right wing politicians isn't moving to the left.
If you are far right, in order to be just right you need to move towards the left. It is as simple as that. If you don't wanna, that's fine, but it is what it is.
That's not how politics works. Politics is not a game of one dimensional lines, but positions. We currently are in a Neoliberal hellscape under a genocidal Neoliberal. Voting for the genocidal Neoliberal will continue said genocidal Neoliberalism. It will maintain the position, and move no closer to Socialism.
If Trump gets elected, Neoliberalism will shift towards fascism/right-wing populism.
Neither Trump nor Biden represents moving to the Left, and will not.
And moving towards fascism is not the opposite direction of what you want?
Neither are closer to Socialism. Fascism is bad, sure. So is Neoliberalism.
So it's all the same to you, gotcha. Mass deportations, end of reproductive rights, reversal of gay rights, less funding for public schools, Bible verses on the wall, the whole project 2025, that's all just as bad as right now?
Already happening under Biden.
Not really.
It is. Biden is continuing the border wall and has higher deporations than Trump. Trans restrictions just passed through the senate. Pentagon spending increased by 200 billion, while spending for social programs decreased by 20 billion. Roe V Wade was overturned.
It's already happening under Biden.
Yeah, because Trump started it, or republican house blocks it. Very convienent leaving out 900 pages of project 2025, BTW.
Nope, the Dems are pushing it too.
If you need to tell yourself that, youbdo you.
I wonder if genocide is alienating voters...
Alienating... towards turbo genocide.
Yep, the DNC is doing turbo genocide.
And the other road goes towards mega-turbo-genocide, boots on the ground and bombing iran (again) just for good measure.
Your choice.
We already said I don't want Trump, so therefore the DNC needs to better appeal to their voterbase and cease the genocide, and swap Biden out. If they don't, Trump will win, and you will have helped them by continuing to push for Democrat-genocide.
"we don't want Trump, but if you don't do xyz I will stay at home/camping against you/bitch and moan and help him win"
"If you say that the DNC should stop committing genocide so more people vote for them, I will whine and complain, then support the genocide."
Yes, this is accurate. The only two options as of July 2024 are genocide or mega-turbo-genocide.
I'd like to have peace on earth, but that's not on the ballot. America is not ready to give up genocide cold turkey. Complaining about the genocide makes the mega-turbo-genocide more likely, which I don't want.
Shit situation, but I choose pragmatism.
If you don't vote for Biden you'll see half a million dead Palestinians under trump.
If I vote for Biden I will see half a million dead Palestinians under Biden or Trump. I doubt Biden can even beat Trump, that's why he needs to either step down or appeal to his voterbase.
If you don't appeal to me, I'll help the guy win who is even worse!
How are non-voters or third party voters that Biden already wasn't getting helping Trump? How is it 2020 Biden Voters fault that Biden is committing genocide and disengaging his own voterbase?
Nothing you've said makes any sense. If Biden wants the DNC to win, he needs to not commit genocide or step down. Simple.
Don't commit genocide or I'll vote for the guy with double genocide!
Again, nobody against genocide is voting for Trump. You're less and less coherent.
Remember the half vote?
Yep, it's mathematically wrong.
Because it's a figure of speech. Technically it's just one. But since you start arguing semantics I guess you concede the discussion?
No, it's not wrong because it's a metaphor, it's wrong period. Biden is not entitled to votes, and is actively torpedoeing his chances, that's the point.
Do you want me to hand you the nose saw?
Again, we have to reiterate here: I have already said I plan on voting for Biden for now, and yet you've been batting for genocide and "uhm akshually-ing" about how Biden is good and should stay in the race, despite 54% of Democrat voters wanting him to drop out.
He's cooked.
And they will want him to stay in two weeks, if he doesn't do a silly in one news cycle.
I never said Biden is good, I didn't even contest your statement that he's "right wing".
I just said that the other guy is much worse. Hence any statement criticizing Biden on topic xyz without mentioning that trump is ackshually much worse on that topic, is pushing your country to the right even further. Imagine a SCOTUS with 5 or 6 trump justices.
Anyway, it's your country, not mine. I'm moderately satisfied with the political choices I made.
This is all vibes with no actual analysis, lol. Dems and their voters want them to drop.
And they will want him to stay in two weeks, if he doesn't do a silly in one news cycle.
He's always doing "a silly," 100 Palestinians were murdered yesterday. His mental capacity is night and day different from 2020, which was already night and day from 2008/2012.
Even if the majority want him to stay (which is wrong for now), there are still a huge number of people disengaged by him. Do you think swapping him out would hurt the DNCs chances?
Yes, I do think that. There will be chaos, infighting and accusations of anti-democratic behavior.
Which might be moot, given the events yesterday.
Why would it be "anti-democratic behavior" if the majority want him to step down?
It's even worse now that Trump pulled the best PR of his life yesterday.
Because the primaries are over. The rest is polling which is a private exercise, not even a semblance of oversight. The democrats had a chance to speak and they spoke 90% in favor of Biden. There is no do-overs in the process.
Take a look at the UK and post-brexit remorse. Sucks, but once you vote you accept the consequences.
Gotcha, so the will of the people doesn't matter to you, optics does. Can't think of a more worthless way to view politics, to he honest.
The will of the people has been heard in the democratic process. The people chose Biden when it was time to choose. If the will of the people doesn't matter to you (or whatever CNN says about the last poll is more important than election results) I can't think of a more worthless way to view politics...
The people didn't have anyone else to choose in many instances, and not every state had a primary. The DNC basically skipped the process. The will of the people is important, that's why I want the genocide to stop and Biden to be swapped out.
If you again care more about making sure the genocide continues and harp on people for not being as willing as you to support genocide, then you may be a monster.